Flat Earth?

This topic contains 2,468 replies, has 16 voices, and was last updated by  t8 1 day, 18 hours ago.

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  • #826291
     t8 
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    Day 1

    Hey Ed, what possible reason would I have to consider it a reiteration?  Do you suppose anyone in Moses’, King David’s, or Jesus’ day would have read Genesis and concluded that God really made the sun on day one instead of day four?

    Considering that was in the first day, then yeah, that is one good reason to believe the sun was there. So was day one, 24 hours even though there was no sun.

    It does seem reasonable to assume that on day 4,  the sun, moon, and stars were in the firmament, whereas they were not there before due to the primeval conditions on an ancient earth, not because they didn’t exist.

    Regardless, knowledge shall increase, so we are told that there would be much more knowledge about things, thus that means there was less knowledge back then, so we shouldn’t rely on antiquity or ancient man to be the standard of absolute truth.

    If we are confronted with this increased knowledge, and the Bible doesn’t rule it out, then it is possible that increased knowledge and scripture are not against each other. In areas where there is conflict, then yeah let’s see the problem in either the interpretation of scripture or the problem in science. Evolution shows such a conflict and when look into it, you can clearly see the problem is the Theory of Evolution.

    #826292
     mikeboll64 
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    D4T:  T8, I think I’ll save my million dollars. But since you’re close why don’t you go for it?

    I will say that your point is well taken and I don’t have an answer as of yet. Kudos for putting some real thought into this!

    There are a lot of things we simply don’t know. But I will point out that Mercator made his famous map (the one on the wall in all the schools) expressly for water vessel navigation.  But in order of produce parallel latitude and longitude lines, he had to mess with the shape and size of the continents.  There is a West Wing episode dealing with a different projection map, but the idea is the same.  4 minutes…

    The point is that sailors don’t need a perfect map to navigate, as for centuries they’ve relied more on the stars than anything else.  Also, about those direct flights, the most direct from Australia to South America would be a straight line over the continent of Antarctica… yet none of them do that.  Why not?  And if you go to “Track My Flight.com” or any other flight tracking site, you will notice that you can see exactly where the planes are at any given moment… until they are over the southern oceans.  Then they just disappear for hours, and pop up out of the blue when they’re really close to the land mass on the other side of the ocean they were flying to.  A little strange, don’t you think?

    I don’t have the southern part of the world figured out just yet, but there are enough anomalies to make me think somebody’s not being truthful about the mainstream story.  And you have to admit that those direct flights are few and far between.  If you try to book one, most of them will say the flight is cancelled.  You can find people claiming to have taken them, but you won’t find any video of the duration of the trip over the ocean.  It’s like the people claiming to have gone to Antarctica and witnessed the 24 hour sun for themselves.  Shame not one of them thinks to record the event on their phone or camera.  Plus, it is abundantly clear that the vast majority of these southern flights do indeed fly hundreds of miles north – WAY off the direct route on a ball earth, but a straight line on the flat earth.

    Anyway, I maintain that these things we can’t yet explain are trivial in comparison to the irrefutable proof of seeing objects that should be MILES under the curvature, seeing the moon eclipse from the top down, and seeing full moons in the daytime.

    #826294
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Mike,

    Is there no end to your dark brooding about conspiracies?

    I am sure telescopes and microscopes will come under your scrutiny.

    But you yet to name the ultimate cause of this amazing and coordinated work.

    #826295
     t8 
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    Also, about those direct flights, the most direct from Australia to South America would be a straight line over the continent of Antarctica… yet none of them do that. Why not?

    Pretty sure one of the videos I posted mentions a direct flight (Inc flight number) between the two continents that dips South to take a more direct route. But let’s assume that dipping right into the centre of Antarctica is even shorter, (it may or may not be the case, but I can’t check right now) then the reason could be a safety thing. Imagine a woman is in labour like that flight that diverted to Alaska, then the nearest landing spot could be too far away. Or imagine the plane didn’t have enough fuel, then they would basically be dead. A bit hard to do an emergency landing there. And yes, I do realise that ocean also poses the same problem, but I’m willing to bet that a big plane could land on any number of islands deep in the South Pacific. I have visited two nations in this ocean, namely Tonga and New Caledonia. But I happen to know that there are international airports in Fiji, Tahiti, Samoa, Cook Islands, Vanuatu, Easter Island etc.

    #826297
     t8 
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    The point is that sailors don’t need a perfect map to navigate, as for centuries they’ve relied more on the stars than anything else.

    While they may not actually need modern tech, they do have modern tech now and I’m guessing many can’t navigate via the stars or efficiently by the stars.

    20 million dollar yacht sailing the Southern Ocean as is the case in the Volvo Ocean Race, use technology to gain every bit of advantage possible. Not even NASA technology beats some of the innovations in these boats.

    #826298
     t8 
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    Anyway, I maintain that these things we can’t yet explain are trivial in comparison to the irrefutable proof of seeing objects that should be MILES under the curvature, seeing the moon eclipse from the top down, and seeing full moons in the daytime.

    Anyway, I maintain that these things we can’t yet explain are trivial in comparison to the irrefutable proof of the continent of Antarctica, yacht and ship navigation of the Southern Ocean, seeing moons and planets via telescopes, satellites, a permantly visible Southern Cross in NZ and South America at the same time while not being visible from North America which lies in between,
    and how the Heliocentric model turns all wandering stars into a circular orbit around the sun compared to a much more complex and unexplainable orbit around the Earth.

    As for your points in the quote, I will post up the explanation for seeing full moons during the day.

    #826302
     Dig4truth 
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    We’ve all heard of the legendary Southern Cross. It’s possible to view it from the Northern Hemisphere if you’re in Hawaii, or south Florida, or south Texas.

     

    Here’s an interesting video on star trails. I can’t say it happens this way but it makes sense.

     

     

     

    #826303
     Ed J 
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    The point was how you could have a wind that is going against a 1,000 mph rotation. It would seem that all winds would have to follow or lag behind the spin of the globe.

    Hi Dig.

    That is what I have always thought as well – that would mean Weather from East to West, but we see the opposite.

    ____________
    God bless
    Ed J

    #826309
     Dig4truth 
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    Not only that Ed, but as you go higher in elevation the atmosphere would have to rotate faster because of the greater circumference. Not only that but of the way the atmosphere stays in contact with the earth is by shear force then the heat would also increase. Shear force is kinetic energy which generates heat. This heat would have to go somewhere, presumable into space which would mean that the overall energy is dissipating and earth is loosing energy. How long could this go on for?

    Anyway, some pretty interesting points to consider. Here’s a video with an engineer that is working on such problems.

     

     

     

     

    #826310
     t8 
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    Maybe instead of a flat earth at the centre of God’s creation, God is at the centre of his own creation. And he creates all the worlds around him and his creation is orbiting him. And by his Spirit he can enter his own creation. It seems more feasible to me that God is the centre not man.

    #826311
     t8 
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    The globe tilts providing seasons and also allows some northern areas to peek at the Southern Cross for a time

    We’ve all heard of the legendary Southern Cross. It’s possible to view it from the Northern Hemisphere if you’re in Hawaii, or south Florida, or south Texas.

    The globe earth explains that beautifully. The Earth tilts to create seasons and thus some places dip down and then up. When the northern part dips down, some can see it. While the Flat Earth can invent a way to explain it, I bet it will again be more complex with zero proof and perhaps no explanation as to why.

    Just like wandering stars. Their orbits are as simple as can be from the heliocentric model. In the Flat Earth model, they go forward, stop, and go backwards for a time. And what is the chance that the wandering stars all just happen to be simple orbits around the sun when you project their path in that view. Is that just a massive coincidence? Come on.

    The Globe Earth model beautifully explains why southern areas can see the Southern Cross all the time, Hawaii can see it sometimes, and it also explains the orbits of wandering stars. Funny how this model and gravity explains everything beautifully, simply, and elegantly. But them we also have photos, video, and other proofs outside of the imagined model. SO many proofs in fact that you would need a conspiracy of massive proportions always deceiving involving millions of willing subjects. What is easier to believe, a beautiful theory that explains everything we observe, or a theory that doesn’t explain everything at least not in simple terms and is being promoted by a Globe Earth conspiracy involving millions of people.

    #826312
     t8 
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    The atmosphere spins with the earth

    The point was how you could have a wind that is going against a 1,000 mph rotation. It would seem that all winds would have to follow or lag behind the spin of the globe.

    Earth’s rotation is 24 hours. Try staring at a clock and the little hand to see how slow that is relatively speaking. Then divide that by half. But yes, given the size of the Earth, the surface velocity is quite fast, but that itself will not cause wind as the atmosphere spins with the earth. And space doesn’t resist the atmosphere either from what I just read. And why does the atmosphere and Earth spin together? I just read this:

    The friction between the earth’s surface and the atmosphere. The atmosphere rotates along with the Earth due to the friction. Friction makes molecules that are in contact with the ground to move. The friction between the air molecules (air viscosity) causes the upper molecules to move.

    #826314
     t8 
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    A simple beautiful model vs a giant conspiracy

    The Globe Earth model beautifully explains why southern areas can see the Southern Cross all the time, Hawaii can see it sometimes, and it also explains the orbits of wandering stars. Funny how this model and gravity explains everything beautifully, simply, and elegantly. But then we also have photos, video, and other proofs outside of the imagined model. So many proofs in fact that you would need a conspiracy of massive proportions always deceiving and involving millions of willing subjects. What is easier to believe, a beautiful theory that explains everything we observe and doesn’t rule out a creator but even gives more reasons for one, or a theory that doesn’t explain everything at least not in simple terms along with belief in a Globe Earth conspiracy of gigantic proportions that has zero proof for the whole time it has existed.

    #826313
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Dig4,

    Matt 14.28

    Peter said to him

    ’ Lord, if it is you, command me to come to you on the water’

    And he said

    ’Come!’

    And Peter got out of the boat, and walked on the water and came towards Jesus. But seeing the wind he became frightened, and beginning to sink he cried out

    ’Lord, save me’

    Immediately Jesus stretched out his hand and took hold of him.

    ’ You of little faith, why did you doubt?’

     

    Doubt bears fruit.

    #826320
     t8 
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    How does Earth keep its atmosphere?

    Earth’s atmosphere is only 1/1,200,000 the mass of Earth itself. So it is a very thin skin surrounding our planet. How does Earth hold on to this thin skin of atmosphere?

    The answer is gravity – the same force that keeps us anchored to Earth.

    And yet, although you might not realize it or think about it, Earth does continually lose some of its atmosphere to space. This loss occurs in the upper atmosphere, over billion-year time scales.

    Molecules in our atmosphere are constantly moving, spurred on by energizing sunlight. Some move quickly enough to escape the grip of Earth’s gravity. The escape velocity for planet Earth is a little over 11 kilometers per second – about 25 thousand miles an hour. If Earth were much less massive – say, as massive as Mars – gravity’s grip would be weaker. That’s one reason why Mars lost most of its original atmosphere.

    In the vicinity of our heavier Earth, where gravity is stronger than on Mars, not all particles are equally likely to escape. Light ones, like hydrogen and helium, typically move faster than heavier ones, like oxygen and nitrogen. The light atoms are more likely to reach escape velocity and escape to space. That’s why light molecules are rare in our atmosphere, in contrast to their abundance in the universe at large.

    Still, all in all, Earth’s atmosphere is here to stay. And that’s a good thing because our atmosphere protects life on Earth in many ways. It absorbs harmful ultraviolet radiation from the sun, helps keep Earth’s surface warm via the greenhouse effect, and reduces temperature extremes between day and night. Yay atmosphere! It keeps Earth livable.

    So, thanks to gravity, although some of Earth’s atmosphere is escaping to space, most is staying here.

    Source: http://earthsky.org/earth/what-keeps-earths-atmosphere-on-earth

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