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Anthony: As we have already mentioned, the Bible consistently uses the phrase, heaven and earth, to refer to the universe or cosmos…
I read the scriptures you listed, but was unable to find either “universe” or “cosmos” in them.
Anthony: Thus it is not necessary to assume the sun was not part of the heaven and the earth created on the first day…
Since there will be no need for the sun as a light source in the future, it is certainly possible that there was no need for the sun as a light source in the beginning.
Your latter statement makes null your former. Let’s take it backwards… Since there will be light without the sun in the future, there is no reason to assume there wasn’t light without the sun until day four – the time scripture clearly says God created the sun.
Ed: “And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day” (Gen 1:16)
The light he called “Day” happened on DAY 1 Mike…
“And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night.
And the evening and the morning were the first day.” (Gen 1:5)It doesn’t say God created the sun because “day” couldn’t exist without it. It says He created the greater light to “rule” the day. For example, if God specifically created King David to “rule” Israel, it doesn’t mean Israel couldn’t have existed until King David existed to rule it. Consider these scriptures…
Revelation 22:5
There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever.
Notice it doesn’t say there will be no more “day” just because the sun will no longer be needed.
Isaiah 60:19
No longer will you have the sun for light by day, Nor for brightness will the moon give you light; But you will have the LORD for an everlasting light, And your God for your glory.
Notice that there will still be day… it’s just that we’ll no longer have the sun for light during the day.
But since you omitted my Genesis verses when you quoted me, let me take them one at a time here…
Genesis 1
14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the firmament…”
Did the lights really come to be at this time? If not, what is the reason behind your conclusion?
15 And it was so.
Was it really so that the lights came to be at this time? If not, what is the reason behind your conclusion?
16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars.
Did God really make the two great lights and the stars at this time? If not, what is the reason behind your conclusion?
17-18 God set them in the firmament to give light on the earth, to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness.
Did God really set them in the firmament at this time? If not, what is the reason behind your conclusion?
19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.
Did this really happen on the fourth day? If not, what is the reason behind your conclusion?
Ed, please note that when I’m asking for the reasons behind your conclusions, I’m not asking for the ways you can manipulate the words of scripture to suit your purpose. I’m asking for the reason this purposes exists in the first place. If you are honest, you will tell me clearly that the reason is because men have told you that stars/suns come before planets, and since you believe both those men and the scriptures, you are bound to find a way the scriptures can align themselves with the words of those men.
That is the honest answer, and it pains me that neither you nor T8 nor Gene nor anyone else here will just come right out and say it like it is. T8 came the closest when he said King David’s understanding of how the world really is was mistaken. Of course the underlying reason for his conclusion is that godless men have told him something different than what God’s messiah David said, and therefore it is God’s anointed “firstborn of the kings of the earth” who must be wrong – not the godless men.
But I think it would be cathartic for all of you to just admit what we all know is the truth of the matter anyway. Maybe plainly admitting it will cause you one of those moments when people say, “Now that I hear it out loud, I realize just how ridiculous it sounds.” Like this funny clip from Friends. I have it cued to the spot… you need only watch 30 seconds. Who knows… maybe you’ll have a “floating Eddy” moment.
Let’s talk about the law of the Messiah ” is the same as the law of God)well Dig when Paul came around he called it the law of Christ or the law of Faith I hope you can look these Scripture’s up. Paul was on a new Revelation, on the road to Damascus: Paul says how that by Revelation he made know unto me the mystery ( as I wrote afore in few words where by when you read you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ. Which in other ages was not made known unto the Sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit. God bless.
Hi Dig now let’s talk about this…. all Jewish people came to the new covenant. Got born again by a new birth by the Spirit through Faith (His faith) his grace His life He is the one!! there will be just a remnant in comparison to the population of the whole round earth ,I’m a round earther! God bless in Him Anthony
Nick: Hi,
These guys fully understand the creation of God.
They know more than Newton and Einstein and all other observers of nature.
Prov 3.5
Trust in the Lord with all your heart and do not lean on your own understanding.
In all your ways acknowledge Him, and He will make your paths straight.
Do not be wise in your own eyes; fear the Lord and turn away from evil.
Brilliant post, Nick. Now just apply it to yourself – since you are the one trusting men who the world consider to be wise in their own eyes, and completely forgoing God’s own explanation of the world He created.
The saddest part is that you can’t even tell us WHY Newton and Einstein are considered geniuses by the world. What exactly did either of them do that was so “genius”? Do you know? Could you explain it in layman’s terms to us, including the reason why their theory or deduction or whatever really WAS “genius”? Of course not. You only believe they were geniuses because you’ve heard other people say it. And 99% of the people you’ve heard say it couldn’t explain what was so genius about anything they did either.
But just in case, tell us the genius of Newton’s Theory of Gravitation. What made it such a “genius discovery”? And then tell us about Einstein’s Theory of Gravitation. What made his a “genius discovery”, how does it differ from Newton’s, and how does it relate to his Theory of General Relativity?
You take Proverbs 3:5 to a whole new level, because you’re considering yourself wise by blindly believing the words of worldly men who were leaning on their own understanding instead of trusting YHWH with their whole heart.
If you repented from believing these worldly men and went back to trusting YHWH with your whole heart, you’d come to the realization that the earth came first, then the sun, moon and stars. You’d realize that the heaven and the earth have been fixed on pillars, and can only be shaken if God shakes them. You’d realize that the sun runs it’s God-appointed circuit over the earth from its place in the firmament that separates the heaven from the earth. And you’d realize that all of this was created in 6 literal 24 hour days about 6000 years ago.
Please repent from believing these men who are wise in their own eyes, and in the eyes of the world. For we are to have no part with this world, remember? Trust in YHWH with all your heart, and take guidance only from those who do the same.
T8: Mike, you are right. New Zealand is being left off the world maps. Maybe we don’t even exist? Lots of questions.
If they can remove you from existence, think how easy it will be to do it with Antarctica once the truth comes out. 🙂 This reminds me of the time years ago when you were bragging about how NZ has the largest store of fresh water in the world, so if anything goes down, you guys would be okay. And I told you that the US has the most powerful military in the world, and we’d just slap you around like a little kid and take your water. 😀
Ahh… good times.
T8: What are the heavens if it doesn’t include stars.
The heavens are water…
Genesis 1:7
God made the firmament, and separated the waters which were below the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so.
Psalm 148:4
Praise him, you highest heavens and you waters above the skies.
The sun, moon and stars are in the firmament, which God called heaven. But God resides above that, in what scripture calls “the highest heavens”, “the heaven of heavens”, and “the third heaven”… ie: the place you think is a vast vacuum filled with trillions of stars and planets. But all the heavenly luminaries are in the “second heaven” – the firmament.
Hi Mike,
Are you done yet?
Have you had your fill of rejection?
You have dominated the stage here with no obvious results.
Have you overcome all those annoying little doubts yet that tell you you are deceived?
miia: I think people are mistaken to think this topic is a waste of time. Personally, I find it interesting, and it has become a topic of discussion in our family. I know people attempt to hide the true God by either blaspheming his character or wiping God out if schools altogether and teaching evolution. So why should we trust man? God said cursed is he who follows man and not God, and makes flesh his strength. I have always believed in a stationary earth with the sun and moon revolving around it and the stars in the heaven as lights for the earth, just like God said. A flat earth is not something I can easily believe. But then again, we have been programmed to believe in a round earth from a young age. And what of gravity? Isn’t it strange that gravity can hold the oceans from spilling off an “upside down” planet yet not a butterfly? And then there’s the “up and down” question. I believe there’s a definite up and down, with God’s throne up above us. Anyway, there’s so much more I can say but I’m still on my phone and the keyboard makes too many typos, and then I get interrupted and lose my track of thought! So it’s in my head, but hard to put down coherently, lol. So, I’ll read.
Thank you so much for that. There are a lot of people who still believe in Ptolemy’s geocentric model – where the earth is stationary with the luminaries moving around us – but the earth is a sphere. But the points you just mentioned, and many many others, argue against a ball where a quarter of the population is upside down, a half of them are sideways, and only the quarter of them on the “top” are living right side up. And yes, it’s absolutely ludicrous to think this force of gravity causes some things to stick firm and others to orbit. It’s crazy to think the force holding trillions of cubic tons of water upside down wouldn’t crush the fish that easily maneuver through that water, and can even jump out of it. Besides, helium has mass, and will never be drawn to the earth due to the idea of gravity – which says that ALL objects of mass attract ALL OTHER objects of mass. So helium, by itself, refutes the very idea.
Since you’re stuck with just a phone for now, just make little one line comments here and there. We enjoy hearing from you. 🙂
D4T: Mike, I never thought of that before. But if this fabric exists it must have height, depth and length. So describing it as a “sheet” is disingenuous, but it makes for great illustrations.
Yeah, it’d have to be 3 dimensional, which destroys the “sheet” illustrations they show us. It would basically be what they described for centuries as “the ether”. But Einstein did away with that because if it existed, Michelson-Morley proved the earth was stationary. And we couldn’t have that, right?
Dig4truth….No you never responded to the 13 Scriptures I posted to you that apsolutly prove you were wrong, go back and read them , and compare them to what you wrote. It,s as obvious as the nose on your face, you are completely wrong, by saying Jesus said he would raise himself. Those 13 scripture prove you completely wrong. Again do you actually believe we here are novices reguarding scriptures.
The ship you posted is going laterally not longitudinal from shore easily seen.
And a Gryos is affected to its base and resists any literial movement but not up or down from its base, why do you even think it take two to use them for a automatic pilot. Where are you getting this bogs information your handing us from anyway?
Go read the 13 verses I posted you, and come back and tell us, who was the (I) saying Destory this temple and in three days (I) will raise it up, was the (I) Used a here God the father or was it Jesus?
Quite diverting off subject matter, as people who do not know scriptures do.
Peace and love to you and yours……gene
Gene: Mike….you talk out of both sides of you mouth…
No Gene. Jesus said “I will raise it up”, and God is the one who raised Jesus from the dead. Jesus spoke his own words in the scriptures, just like every other prophet of God did. God speaking through someone doesn’t mean God’s own voice came out of someone else’s body. It means the person spoke the words that God commanded them to speak.
Think of the Israelites when God spoke to them in His own voice from the mountain. They were terrified. Yet you think that voice was bellowing out of Moses’ body when God “spoke through him” – and it didn’t frighten them?
T8: Given the moon’s speed, if it slowed down it would hit the earth because its curve would be more steep and the curve would intersect the earth. If it sped up, it would escape Earth’s gravity.
Google “moon receding from earth”. Then Google “earth spin slowing down”. Read up on those things, and see if you can figure out how they don’t align with this other stuff you’ve been reading and watching. Remember, don’t just accept everything they say without question. Use discernment and your own God-given logic to determine if the fruits are from a good tree or not.
D4T: If the moon is close enough to effect earth it must necessarily be well within the stronger gravitational pull of the earth to do so…
Since the moon is much smaller, approx 1/4 the size, and much lighter (less mass – 80 times less), how then does it maintain its distance? Finally, a question that can’t be answered by “gravity”!
Now that’s using discernment – as opposed to blind faith belief in whatever story scientism tells us.
D4T: (E)………………………………)
(M)……)
Or together:
(E)……(M)…………………….)
Don’t you mean:
Or together:
(E)………………………………(M)……
But good point.
Hi Mike,
Do you think God had a standard method for speaking through His servants, the prophets?
That did not include speaking in the first person?
Heb 1
God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in many portions and in many ways, in these last days has spoken to us in His Son..
Lk 12.11
When they bring you before the synagogues and the rulers and the authorities, do not worry about how or what you are about to speak in your defence, or what you are to say; for the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say.
Matt 10.19
But when they hand you over, do not worry about how or what you are about to say; for it will be given to you in that hour what you are to say. For it is not you who speak, but it is the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you.
Gene: Mike ,…where do you get the idea gyros prove the earth is flat at. They prove np such thing, what they only prove is that they resist change to what they are attached to.
Gyros are rigid in space, Gene. So if you start one spinning on a perfect level on the ground, it will remain in the same position (perfectly level to the ground) no matter where you move it…
So if the rotor is level when you start it spinning, you can move the cage to any position you want, and the rotor will always stay at the level it was when you started it spinning. So if we rotate the base counterclockwise like my arrow shows, the rotor will still keep its level – only with the base at its right now, instead of underneath it. Are you with me so far?
Anthony, do you remember what scriptures I quoted? Here’s one:
John 10:18 No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father.”
It is important to remember who Yeshua is:
Heb 7:14-17 For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, a tribe with reference to which Moses spoke nothing concerning priests. 15 And this is clearer still, if another priest arises according to the likeness of Melchizedek, 16 who has become such not on the basis of a law of physical requirement, but according to the power of an indestructible life. 17 For it is attested of Him,“You are a priest forever According to the order of Melchizedek.”
It sounds as if you are equating an eternal Being with a mere mortal. That ain’t kosher.
If if you desire to debate the Torah (Law), which happens to be my favorite subject, I would be more than happy to do so – but not on this thread. Please start another one and let me know about it so I can participate.
You do know the meaning of Torah/Law is “teaching and instruction”, right? Do you not wish to adhere to God’s teaching and instruction? Just wondering.
Mike, actually my point was that the moon would have to be in that close to the earth to exert any gravational pull. It would obviously be overwhelmed by the gravitational pull of the earth. (Which you can see on the scale as earth’s gravitational pull goes way beyond the moon!) [How does the moon escape it?]
Thanks for allowing me to clarify that! Maybe now it can sink in to everyone!
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