Flat Earth?

This topic contains 2,468 replies, has 16 voices, and was last updated by  t8 1 day, 9 hours ago.

  • Author
    Posts
  • #822406
     NickHassan 
    Participant
    • Topics started 284
    • Total replies 70,595

    Hi Mike,

    Welcome back.

    It depends on definitions.

     

    Do you know of the biblical definitions of

    FOUNDATIONS, PILLARS, CHANNELS, CORNERS, THE DEEP, FIRMAMENT etc?

    Without forming such a foundation we are not able to build anything.

     

    Belief is amazing. I realise that a zealot is unable to be unconvinced by men.

    #822418
     mikeboll64 
    Participant
    • Topics started 79
    • Total replies 25,141

    Hey T8, so good to talk with you again.  I’m happy you are still running this site after all these years.  Good on you, bloke.  Okay, you’ve hit me with a lot, so let me give some brief answers now, and then I hope to walk you through the steps of how I came to believe we don’t live in the universe the scientists have created for us.  Otherwise it will be a never-ending, “Well what about this?  What about that?”, and it’ll be hard to make any headway.

    @t8:  “why can’t the current understanding fit with these descriptions found in the Bible”

    For one, are the sun, the moon and the stars all simply lights IN the firmament that separates the waters above from the waters below, like the Bible says?  For example, God says the moon is a light in the firmament to govern the night.  Men say the moon is a rock that gives off no light of its own, but merely reflects the sun’s light.  There is observational evidence that the moon is it’s own source of light, and that we have been lied to by those men who say it is a rock.  But let’s hold off on that for a moment. For another, did Joshua command the sun and moon to stand still in the sky… or the earth and moon to stop spinning and rotating around the sun? If one takes the scriptures as truth, the sun and moon were moving over the stationary earth, and Joshua commanded them to stop moving.

     

    @t8: “why the conspiracy anyway?”

    Imagine if our world truly was a stationary plane covered by a glass-like dome within which a very local sun, moon and stars moved upon their God-appointed circuits.  If we were shown this, would there be anyone on earth who would believe that our world and the life therein were mere accidents of nature?  Not a chance.  There would likely be the same arguments over who the Creator/Intelligent Designer is… but nobody would question that we and our world were designed.  No godless big bang theory, no godless evolution, no godless Lawrence Krauss saying “forget Jesus – the stars died for you!”

    @t8: “The current view gives God more credit because it is way more amazing.”

    I admit that is one of the first things that stymied me when I began to look into this.  I was (and still am) completely happy to imagine this vastly huge universe God created – filled will trillions of galaxies, stars and planets – all because He knew we’d eventually create telescopes and space travel and be able to see His handiwork in more detail… constantly discovering more and more intricacies that He created for us, and for His own glory.  I also immersed myself in the scientific literature, and was pleased to know that every time the secular scientists think they have the universe figured out, they make a discovery that points right back to intelligent design.  Like the cosmological constant being tuned to one part in 10 to the 120th power.  That’s some serious fine tuning, man.  Add that to the hundreds of other precisely tuned parameters the secularists point out, and one would have to be an idiot to think it all happened by chance.  Even Alan Guth (the guy who came up with inflation theory because the Big Bang simply wouldn’t work without it) lamented that the CMB (cosmic microwave background) points to earth being the very center of the universe.  They have what they call “the axis of evil”, which is how the movements in the vast universe are somehow aligned to the ecliptic of the earth.  They call it the axis of evil because they can’t understand how our insignificant little rock could have everything else aligned to it.  So yeah, I have no problem with the current model.  It’s just that the observational evidence seems to clearly refute it.

     

    @t8: “If the world is flat and hell underneath and a dome above, that is absolutely true. That is how we see it. If we create telescopes and microscopes, and see that the earth is sphere, and the qubits as pixels, then that too is real.”

    We have all seen that the earth is flat.  I contend that nobody has seen that the earth is spherical.  But with that, let me begin my presentation.

     

     

    #822421
     mikeboll64 
    Participant
    • Topics started 79
    • Total replies 25,141

    @t8: “You may have seen this. I post this because the argument is that the earth is the centre while science says the sun is. But even that idea is subjective because the sun supposedly flies  through space. If we add more information the perspective changes.”

    Yeah, I’ve seen the video about how we’re flying through space at what amounts to millions of miles per hour in every conceivable direction at once.  Interesting that none of us have ever felt any of that motion, huh?  We’re spinning around on a ball at over 1000 miles per hour, yet always feel like we’re standing on a flat, motionless plane.  More about that later… I’ve got to get this thing started.

    #822422
     mikeboll64 
    Participant
    • Topics started 79
    • Total replies 25,141

    @t8: “So why is it that we have round stars/suns and wandering stars/planets are also round. But not the Earth. I suppose the argument is that it is the centre so it is unique.”

    Round doesn’t mean spherical.  Besides, in the flat earth model, there is no outer space with all those round planets and stars zooming around.  Here is a short clip to give you guys the basic idea of the flat earth model.

    miia, notice the small and local sun lighting only a part of the earth –  as opposed to the image you posted with a large, far-away sun lighting the whole thing at once.

    #822423
     mikeboll64 
    Participant
    • Topics started 79
    • Total replies 25,141

    Here are a few shots of stars taken by me with my new Nikon P900 83x zoom camera.  It’s hard to keep the camera still on a windy night when zoomed in so far, but you’ll be able to get the idea.  Notice that they don’t look anything like huge fireballs, but more light flashing neon lights.

    They are all very short clips.  The last one is the best IMO.  Hit pause/play while watching it.  Pretty cool.

     

    #822425
     mikeboll64 
    Participant
    • Topics started 79
    • Total replies 25,141

    @Gene: “Mikeboll64. ….when pictures taken from space of earth it shows as round, not flat, so how do does the flat theory account for that?”

    I don’t believe there is a “space”, let alone any real pictures from there.  But let’s put that on the back burner for now.  I want to start my presentation with the flatness of earth that all of us have seen our entire lives, and then go from there.

    #822426
     mikeboll64 
    Participant
    • Topics started 79
    • Total replies 25,141

    Hi Mike,

    Welcome back.

    Thanks Nick.  Good to hear from you after all this time.

     

    It depends on definitions. Do you know of the biblical definitions of

    FOUNDATIONS, PILLARS, CHANNELS, CORNERS, THE DEEP, FIRMAMENT etc?

    Without forming such a foundation we are not able to build anything.

    We can surely delve into that, while remembering not to strain the gnat and swallow the camel.  But does the current secular model sound anything like a firmament separating waters above from waters below, in which God has placed a bunch of LIGHTS called sun, moon, and stars – which all move in relation to the earth on circuits God appointed for them?

     

    Belief is amazing. I realise that a zealot is unable to be unconvinced by men.

    I don’t know if I should take that as an insult, but how about you let me begin to make my case first, and we’ll just go from there?

     

     

    #822427
     NickHassan 
    Participant
    • Topics started 284
    • Total replies 70,595

    Hi Mike,

    What does a FIRMAMENT sound like to you?

    Should we decide on the meaning?

     

    Does everything in scripture have to be literally true to be truth?

    Is God allowed to describe things as man would see them rather than as actual reality?

    The sky scrolling upwards (Is 44) or stars being seen to be falling cannot just be just observational?

     

    Scripture focuses on Israel.

    #822428
     mikeboll64 
    Participant
    • Topics started 79
    • Total replies 25,141

    Okay guys, let’s practice the KISS theory on this one, ie: “Keep It Simple Stupid”.  First up, have any of you ever personally witnessed any earth curvature with your own eyes whatsoever in your lifetime?

    Okay, you can check any source you like to find many different earth curvature calculators on the web.  Or just Google, “What is the formula for the curvature of the earth?”  You will find that the formula is based on the Pythagorean Theorem, and amounts to 8 inches per mile squared.  You can find this info anywhere.  It is not a “flat earth” formula, since we don’t believe there’s any curvature to be measured.  Instead it is a ball earth formula based on a spherical earth 25,000 miles in circumference.  Anyway, 8 inches per mile squared means that if you and I were a mile away from each other, I would not be able to see the bottom 8 inches of your legs – due to your legs being hidden by the earth’s curvature.  But the curve increases exponentially, so if we are two miles apart (2 x 2 x 8 inches, for a total of 32 inches of drop), I cannot see the bottom 2.5 feet of you.  At 3 miles apart (3 x 3 x 8 inches, for a total of 72 inches), I cannot see you at all… unless you’re taller than 6 feet.

    Now before I start showing plenty of proof by way of things we all CAN see despite them supposedly being hidden behind thousands of feet and sometimes even miles of curvature, does anyone have any problems with the ball earther’s formula?  And does anyone here think they’ve seen the curve with their own eyes?

    #822429
     NickHassan 
    Participant
    • Topics started 284
    • Total replies 70,595

    Hi Mike,

    I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread also which I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.Jn 6.51

    Taken literally this was unpalatable to most of the listeners.

    It is a spiritual statement about the essential food of the living Word.

    So God is allowed to teach outside of the human bounds of logic and reason.

     

    We are not bound, out of loyalty to God, to interpret everything literally. Do you agree?

    #822430
     NickHassan 
    Participant
    • Topics started 284
    • Total replies 70,595

    Hi Mike,

    Is literalism a form of legalism?

    #822431
     NickHassan 
    Participant
    • Topics started 284
    • Total replies 70,595

    Hi Mike,

    Where is the earth flat enough for someone with perfect vision

    to be able to testify about details seen a mile away?

    #822432
     NickHassan 
    Participant
    • Topics started 284
    • Total replies 70,595

    Hi Mike,

    If the current secular model is found to be

    consistent with the teaching of scripture

     

    would it shatter your faith in God.?

    #822433
     NickHassan 
    Participant
    • Topics started 284
    • Total replies 70,595

    Hi Mike,

    If you cannot define FIRMAMENT but ask what we think it sounds like, how can we take you seriously?

    Should we put absolute faith in what our eyes see?

    But we are still listening.

     

     

     

    #822434
     NickHassan 
    Participant
    • Topics started 284
    • Total replies 70,595

    Oops,

    I said Is 44.

    But it is Is 34.4

    And all the hosts of heaven will wear away, and the sky will be rolled up like a scroll;

    All their hosts will also wither away as a leaf withers from the vine, or as one withers from a fig tree.

    Compare Is 24.19f

    The earth is broken asunder, the earth is split through, the earth is shaken violently.

    the earth reels to and fro like a drunkard and it totters like a shack,

    for it’s transgression is heavy upon it, and it will fall, never to rise again.

    So it will happen in that day, that the Lord will punish the host of heaven on high,

    and the kings of earth. They will be gathered together like prisoners in the dungeon,

    and will be confined in prison; and after many days they will be punished.

    Then the moon will be abashed and the sun ashamed.

    For the Lord of hosts will reign on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem

    and His glory will be before His elders.

     

    So how will the skies appear to those standing on earth while it is moving?

     

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 2,469 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

© 1999 - 2018 Heaven Net

or

Log in with your credentials

or    

Forgot your details?

or

Create Account