Firstborn of/over all creation

This topic contains 3,653 replies, has 33 voices, and was last updated by  Jodi 1 hour, 27 minutes ago.

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  • #834332
     GeneBalthrop 
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    T8…yes we will have the same kind of body Jesus now has, and that was the body he was raised with, the body God gave him, which never saw coruption in the grave, he still has it, and will come with it also, just as the angel said ‘this Jesus you see asend shall also come in like manner. Same Jesus same body. IMO

    These mortal bodies we now have must put on imortality, not change to a different kind of creature. Just as PAUL SAID “it” (our bodies) is buried in weekness, “it” (our bodies) is raised in power, “it” (our bodies) is buried in dishonor “it” (our bodies) is raised in glory, the object “it” never changed to a different “it” our regenerated bodies will be exactly as the body Jesus was raised with. IMO

    T8, Jesus did not preexist his berth on this earth as you falsely assume brother. He came into his own existence through the loins of king David, just as the apostle Paul said , and Jesus also said “i am the root and offspring of David”. He was not the root and offspring of anything else as you assume.

    Peace and love to you and yours. ……gene

    #834335
     NickHassan 
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    Hi T8,

    Yes then we shall see him as he is.

    Most think they will see him as he was it seems.

    #834338
     GeneBalthrop 
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    To all… nothing has changed with JESUS’ APERANCE, HE IS THE EXACT SAME PERSON HE WAS, ONLY HIS BODY CAN NOT ANY LONGER DIE, AND HE HAS NOW RECIEVED A CROWN OF GLORY, AS ALL WHO ARE TRUE BELIEVERS WILL.

    Peace and love to you all and yours. …..gene

    #834343
     Anthony 
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    Hi All

    First, simply to speak of a “resurrection” of the dead (Matthew 22:30-31Luke 14:141 Corinthians 15:521 Thessalonians 4:16) is to imply physicality. That is what a resurrection is. The Bible has no categories for the concept of a resurrected body that remains dead and physically lying in a grave.

    Second, Philippians 3:20-21teaches us that Christ’s resurrection body is the pattern of our resurrection body: “For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory.” We know that Christ was raised in a physical body because the disciples ate with Him after the resurrection (Acts 10:41) and touched Him (Matthew 28:9; see also John 20:27). Also, Jesus outright declared that His resurrection body was physical and touchable: “See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have” (Luke 24:39; see also Acts 13:33-37). Since Christ’s resurrection is the pattern of our resurrection, we will therefore be raised in a physical body as well.

    Third, Romans 8:21-23 speaks of waiting for “the redemption of our bodies” (v. 23). Our bodies are not going to be thrown away. They are going to be renewed, restored, revitalized.

    Fourth, Jesus speaks of the resurrection as involving the coming forth of individuals out of their tombs, which clearly indicates a physical concept of the resurrection: “Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment” (John 5:28-29).

    Fifth, the Old Testament speaks of the resurrection as being physical: “And many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt” (Daniel 12:2). Likewise, we read in Job: “I know that my Redeemer lives, and at the last He will take His stand on the earth. Even after my skin is destroyed, yet from my flesh I shall see God; Whom I myself shall behold, and whom my eyes shall see and not another. My heart faints within Me” (Job 19:25-27).                   I couldn’t find  anything, that saying Jesus Christ body changed when He went to heaven to seat at the right hand of the Father. God bless.

    #834345
     GeneBalthrop 
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    Anthony. ..AMEN BROTHER, good post, but these people are so indoctrinated in “mystery religion” they simply do not get it. They can’t seem to understand that the resurection is about our bodies and spirit our complete “SOUL”, They can’t understand that there is a reaon that “every hair” is numbered, which shows a perservation of our exact DNA, WHICH IS NEEDED FOR A EXACT COPY OF US TO BE REGENERATED. God by his spirit will regenerate us just as he did originally with Adam, AND WILL ALLOW US TO TAKE FROM THE TREE OF LIFE AND LIVE FOREVER, as Adam and Eve could have had they not sinned.

    Some have this strange idea that we will be spirits drifting around in “arid places” looking for a body to find rest in. They don’t understand that spirits want bodies to dwell in, so God has given our spirits bodies just as it pleased him, and To every creature a body of it’s own.

    Anyway goo post Anthony.

    Peace and love to you and yours. …..gene

    #834398
     Ed J 
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    Hi Gene,

    Mystery Babylon is about islam. It is not about
    those who disagree with your doctrines.

    ____________
    God bless
    Ed J

    #834410
     Truthcomber 
    Participant
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    • Total replies 445

    Hi Anthony,

     

    You: First, simply to speak of a “resurrection” of the dead (Matthew 22:30-31; Luke 14:14; 1 Corinthians 15:52; 1 Thessalonians 4:16) is to imply physicality. That is what a resurrection is. The Bible has no categories for the concept of a resurrected body that remains dead and physically lying in a grave.

    Me:

    1 Cor 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be,…43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

    Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

    Me: our natural bodies will rot away return to the dust. We will have bodies that are glorious.

    It will not a spiritual body in the sense that it is composed of spirit which cannot be seen; it is a spiritual body in the sense that it is of the holy spirit and in the image of our physical bodies. The physical body is in the bodily mage of the human spirit. The spiritual body is the bodily image of the holy spirit. We bear the image of Christ

    #834411
     Truthcomber 
    Participant
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    Hi Anthony,

     

    You: Second, Philippians 3:20-21 a) teaches us that Christ’s resurrection body is the pattern of our resurrection body: “For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory.”

    Me: a) Christ will transform or lowly bodies into glorious ones. Hurray, correct. Did Christ have a glorious body when the apostle touched him? No he did not.

    Matt 17:2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. 3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. 4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias…9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

    Matt 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

    Me: Notice the apostles recognized the human figures of Christ, Moses, and Elias.  Anthony this is a vision of how Christ looks like now. We also will shine like the stars in heaven. We will not have a body composed of flesh. It would be burnt up.

    Rev 21 :1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.:

    Me: All things will be new. That includes our bodies. Will the angels, who men saw and were in stalk awe have glorious bodies and not Christ.

    You: b) We know that Christ was raised in a physical body because the disciples ate with Him after the resurrection (Acts 10:41) and touched Him (Matthew 28:9; see also John 20:27). Also, Jesus outright declared that His resurrection body was physical and touchable: “See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have” (Luke 24:39; see also Acts 13:33-37). Since Christ’s resurrection is the pattern of our resurrection, we will therefore be raised in a physical body as well.

    Me: He was raised as a physical man first.

    John 17: 5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

    Me: He was glorified when he had ascended into heaven. That was foreseen by God before Christ existed.

    Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. 23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

    #834412
     Truthcomber 
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    • Topics started 5
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    Hi Anthony,

    1 Thes 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

    Me: Click on the link below. Then click on 450 above “will rise”.

    https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_thessalonians/4-16.htm

    Alternative Definition:

    2. to arise, appear, stand forth; of kings, prophets, priests, leaders of insurgents: Acts 5:36; Acts 7:18. middle, Romans 15:12; Hebrews 7:11, 15. of those about to enter into conversation or dispute with anyone, Luke 10:25; Acts 6:9; or to undertake some business, Acts 5:6; or to attempt something against others, Acts 5:17. Hence, ἀναστῆναι ἐπί τινα to rise up against anyone: Mark 3:26 (עַל קוּם). (Synonym: see ἐγείρω, at the end Compare: ἐπανίστημι, ἐξανίστημι.)

    Me: So, “rise” is used to mean appear in the above verses. The word 450. anistémi is used overwhelming as an intransigent verb with no object. So, 1 Thes 4:16 could very well read:

    1 Thes 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall appear first.

    Me: As I have explained previously, the dead in Christ are the ones who have completely died to self. They have resurrected spiritually and are with Christ at their deaths. Those alive will die to self afterwards, for it is appointed men to die once and for all. Then they will meet those in the air with Christ and the rest of the saints.
    How could those in the dust rise first before those in air that had risen already?

    #834413
     Truthcomber 
    Participant
    • Topics started 5
    • Total replies 445

    Hi Anthony,

     

    You: Fourth, Jesus speaks of the resurrection as involving the coming forth of individuals out of their tombs, which clearly indicates a physical concept of the resurrection: “Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment” (John 5:28-29).

    Me:
    John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. 25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

    Me: Those dead saints prior to Pentecost will live. Those alive will never die in they endure to the end of their lives. Spirits can live without body. Our heavenly father is invisible spirit. He has live without a body from eternity.  “They that hear” is not everyone that died but a select few, the OT saints which includes Job.

    John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

    Me: This is the resurrection of the dead at the end of the millennium.

     

     

     

    #834414
     Truthcomber 
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    Hi Anthony,

     

    You: Fifth, the Old Testament speaks of the resurrection as being physical: “And many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt” (Daniel 12:2).

    Me: This corresponds to:

    John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

    And not to John 5:25 in which the OT saints are resurrected after Pentecost., including Job below.

    Job 19:26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

    Click on the link below: Then click on 1320
    https://biblehub.com/interlinear/job/19-26.htm

    anyone* (1), bodies (2), body (39), fatter* (1), flesh (176), gaunt* (3), lustful* (1), man (1), mankind (3), mankind* (1), meat (34), men (1), person (1).

    Me: In light of all that was presented, body is the best definition, because we will have a new glorified body. Notice, the present body is destroyed.

    Job 19:26 JAnd though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my body shall I see God:

    #834415
     Truthcomber 
    Participant
    • Topics started 5
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    Hi Anthony,

    2 Cor 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

    Me: Our tent or tabernacle live in here on earth s a temporary dwelling

     

    #834416
     Truthcomber 
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    Me: This should be my last post on this subject since I believe nothing more of significance can be added.

    #834452
     Ed J 
    Participant
    • Topics started 155
    • Total replies 27,972

    Hi Gene,

    Mystery Babylon is about islam. It is not about
    those who disagree with your doctrines.

    ____________
    God bless
    Ed J

    Gene?

    #834455
     GeneBalthrop 
    Participant
    • Topics started 42
    • Total replies 16,434

    Edj….Show scripture, to support your conclusions, islam did not even exist when those scriptures speaking of mystery bablyon were written, and the word bablyon simply means confusion, as present christainity is today, and doctrines like JESUS BEING A GOD AND HIM PREXISTING HIS BIRTH ON THIS EARTH, all lies and workings of Satan.

    Peace and love to you and yours. …..gene

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