Firstborn of/over all creation

This topic contains 3,653 replies, has 33 voices, and was last updated by  Jodi 1 hour, 44 minutes ago.

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  • #834308
     GeneBalthrop 
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    Jodi….AMEN, IT WAS THE ACTUAL BODY JESUS HAD THAT WAS RESURECTED, BUT IMPOWERED BY THE SPIRIT OF God to never die again. OUR bodies will also be resurected as his is, to never die again, by the same spirit that was in him and in us.

    TC…You said the body (temple) Jesus was raised up with was not the same body he died in, you are wrong it was the same body IE. TEMPLE, why?, because his body never saw corruption, so it HAD TO BE THE SAME BODY. The only difference is his resurected “body” was raised in honor and glorified to never see death again.

    This is the way it could have been also, with the first Adam had he not sinned, he would still be alive in his body that was given him to this very day. WHY., BECAUSE then God would not have prevented him from eating of the tree of life which was in the midst of the garden and he would have never died , just as scripture says.

    Peace and love to you and yours. ……gene

    #834310
     NickHassan 
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    Hi TC,

    you say

    ‘If God is the Father of spirits we must become spirits when we die’

    Foolish and presumptuous Logic gone mad.

    #834311
     Truthcomber 
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    Hi Jodi,

    You: There is not a scripture that says that we will have bodies like angels, we are told that we are not able to die anymore like the angels. Just because we are not able to die anymore like the angels does NOT equate to we will have the same body as them. We are told directly the OPPOSITE actually.

    Me:

      

    Scripture please! What Anthony and Gene have told you doesn’t count.

    Mark 12:18 Then come unto him the Sadducees, which say there is no resurrection; and they asked him, saying…25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.

    Heb 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire…13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? 14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

    Me: We will have bodies of the spirit like angels are spirits and have bodies of the spirits.  I have already explained this.

    What does it mean to be in the image of God?  Does this have anything to do with the bodies we are to receive?

    Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

    Me: We, like the Messiah was, will be clothed not with the body we have, but of the seed of the holy spirit. We now have the body of the human spirit.

    Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. 23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

    John 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him…9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

    Comment: These scripture explains what the image of God is. It is the spirit of God along with the body that goes with that spirit.

    1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

    1 Cor 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

    Me: The Messiah was born at birth with the seed of God in him. We are born of God with the seed of God in us at a later stage in life.

    1 Cor 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

    Me: From birth, we have the seed of the human spirit that remains until we die. Then our souls are no more. We then have the one spirit, the holy spirit from the inception of the seed of the holy spirit.  Spirits cannot be seen.  But the body of the spirit can be seen.

    1 Cor 15:37 And that which thou sowest (seed of the human spirit), thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain (seed of the holy spirit):

    Me: We will have a body that is of the seed from  the holy spirit. We will no longer have a body from the seed of the human spirit.
    Click on the link below. Then click on 1131 above “a bare”
    NASB Translation
    bare (1), naked (11), open (1), stripped (1), without clothing (1).
    https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_corinthians/15-37.htm

    Me: We shed the body of the flesh for a body of the spirit and are like angels that never die.

    #834312
     Truthcomber 
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    Hi Jodi,

     

    Hi Jodi,

    You: TC you are confused,

    Me: Yes, I am confused by your nonsense.

    You: All of God’s creatures that have life are called in the bible as being living souls.

    Me: True

    You: It is vanity we are told, emptiness to think that we have any advantage over other animals, as animals die we suffer the same exact fate. Wise Solomon, King David, and Isaiah, all tell us that when you die your plans perish, you know nothing, you cannot praise God when you are dead, you can do no work, or devise anything. Read through all of the verses and see how the words soul and spirit are used, they are used interchangeably.

    Me: True for all in the OT, both man and beast. True for those in the NT that are not born and baptized in the holy spirit.  Not true in the NT for saints resurrect in the spirit. We went over that.

    You: (They: spirit or soul from you– Emphasis mine) represent your life, your mind, your heart. Your body is controlled by and is animated by your brain, and your mind that exists therein.

    Me: Your brain and body is animated by the spirit. The body without the spirit is dead, and the spirit is in the blood.

    You: Your thoughts, words and deeds are a product of your mind. You character is a product of your mind. When you die your heart stops pumping blood to your brain and your brain dies, your mind can no longer function, it is dead, your spirit is DEAD TC.

    Me: Yes, your human spirit does not go back to God. It is in the realm of the dead. But we are of the spirit of God. It goes back to God with our hearts (of Christ) and minds in it.

    #834313
     Truthcomber 
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    Hi Jodi,

     

    You:

    Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

    Me: I have explained this heresy to Gene a few posts up.

     

    You:

    You: TC the scripture is CLEAR according to the FLESH Jesus would be raised up to sit on David’s throne. People were witnesses to this, to the resurrection of Jesus, and Jesus had people feel and touch him so that they could see that he was flesh and bones.

    Acts 4:33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.

    Me:

    Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

    Me: Christ had not received a body of the spirit with power at this point. He was still 100% human as before he had died.

    Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. 9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

    Romans 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

    Me: The apostles would receive power at Pentecost after Christ became a life giving spirit (1 Cor 15:45), for the human mind was now fully incorporated into the holy spirit. Christ was first resurrected as a human with flesh of a human. His flesh was converted into spirit being after his ascension into heaven. He could then reveal himself in a body of the spirit.

    Acts 2:29 and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he (emphasis mine: was) both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

    Acts 4:33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.

    Me: The physical resurrection first, and then the accession into heaven to become a life giving spirit.

    John 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

    Me: Christ could give the holy spirit at this point.  But he could not give the holy spirit with power until after his human mind was totally integrated into the spirit of God.

    John 7:37  In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet______ because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

    You:
    The body of Jesus was weak-it was able to die
    God would not allow this body to decay

    Me True

    You: The body of Jesus was raised in power– no longer able to die

    Me: False, The Messiah became a life giving spirit after his ascension into heaven.

    Jesus was not given a different “kind” of body, the body that he died with, this body was not allowed to see decay, it was given eternal life. His same body was given eternal life. This is exactly what we are told.

    Me: I had explained this heresy and foolishness to your follower, Gene, a couple post up.

     

    #834314
     Truthcomber 
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    Hi Gene,

    You:

    TC…You said the body (temple) Jesus was raised up with was not the same body he died in, you are wrong it was the same body IE. TEMPLE, why?, because his body never saw corruption, so it HAD TO BE THE SAME BODY. The only difference is his resurrected “body” was raised in honor and glorified to never see death again.

    Me: Again, you misquote me. I never said that. Christ rose from the dead in the body that he had before the dead, yes.
    Christ became a life giving spirit after he ascended into heaven to have a body of the holy spiritual image of his physical body. This was not of the substance of his physical body.

    You: This is the way it could have been also, with the first Adam had he not sinned, he would still be alive in his body that was given him to this very day. WHY., BECAUSE then God would not have prevented him from eating of the tree of life which was in the midst of the garden and he would have never died , just as scripture says.
    Peace and love to you and yours. ……gene

    Me: God knew Adam would eat of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. A & E became as Gods to know good and evil. If they had eaten only of the tree of life, they would never had been like God to know what good and evil is.

    .
    Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

    Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

    #834315
     NickHassan 
    Participant
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    Hi TC,

    Jesus was raised in his original body to fulfil the sign of Jonah.

    Later he was taken up out of their sight and these guys only believe what was seen.

    #834316
     NickHassan 
    Participant
    • Topics started 284
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    Hi Anthony,

    It seems everything you is offer is from someone else.

    Drink water from your own cistern.

    #834318
     Ed J 
    Participant
    • Topics started 155
    • Total replies 27,972

    Hi Gene,

    Wake up Gene.

    The meaning of ALL depends on the CONTEXT.

    What is the context in which it is written? Superficial reading of scripture is just folly.

    Hi Nick,

    Yes all is not all – here all is all except 8

    “And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.” (Gen 6:13)

    AND the earth wasn’t destroyed either; like scorched earth
    proponents insist must happen according to 2Peter 3:10.

    Good studying with you Nick!

    ____________
    God bless
    Ed J

    #834319
     GeneBalthrop 
    Participant
    • Topics started 42
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    TC…it’s only heresy to those who are unable to see the truth. Think about this, if JESUS had his body done away with, then the judgement of God would not have been just, because he said, “the “soul” that sinneth shall die”, Jesus esus never sinned so his “soul” (body and spirit) was preserved and never saw corruption, he was raised withthe same body he had when he died, and the word of GOD REMAINS TRUE.

    AGAIN you greatly error, as i said, had Adam and Eve not sinned they both would still be alive to this very day, just as God created them, with the same bodies they were given when they was created. Or haven’t you read

    God plainly said what he created was “very good”. You seem to disagree with him. God has given us all bodies just as it pleased him, but you disagree with him it seems, read GEN 3:22 and come back and tell us what you think that means.

    Jesus was the exactly what God had in mind for all humanity when he created them in the beginning GOD HAS subjected humanity to vanity for the purpose of teaching us the difference of right and wrong, good and evil, not to give us a different body, but to allow us to learn, through experience. But none of that changes his original intentions for his human sons and daughters.

    Jesus is the exact protype OF GOD INTENDS FOR ALL HUMAN BEING, AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BEING CHANGED TO A SPIRIT BEING OF ANYKIND, ONLY A PERFECTING OF A HUMAN “SOUL” which is A BODY WITH SPIRIT OF ETERNAL LIFE IN IT.

    You have not presented a single scripture where Jesus lost his physical body he was born with, and was changed into something else.

    You words are against what Jesus said “behold it is me, feel me and touch me and see that it is me”, it was the “man” Jesus with his original body that was raised with power and glory, not a different Jesus as you seem to preach.

    Peace and love to you and yours. ……gene

    #834320
     Jodi 
    Participant
    • Topics started 9
    • Total replies 1,375

    Hi Nick,

    The problem you have with your belief is that you do not have a scripture to back it up, and scripture actually speaks against you.

    Give me some scriptures that show Jesus was given an entirely different kind of body after he ascended to heaven to sit at God’s right hand.

    1 Corinthians 15 speaks of the BODY and it being raised up in glory, and power, NOT being changed to a different kind of body.  You deny the clear passage that says according to the flesh Jesus would sit on David’s throne. We are told in Revelation that Jesus is STILL the offspring of David, which would clearly mean that Jesus has a genetic code that links him to David. He still has the same dna he had before, dna is made of the same elements of the earth, Jesus is the last Adam (red earth), and we will all become like the last Adam (red earth) that is no longer able to die. A human being was to sit on David’s throne, his descendant, for all eternity. 

    The sign of Jonah was that Jesus would be 3 days and 3 nights in the HEART of the earth. This is for a different thread, but the heart of the earth does not represent the grave, it represents the ways of man on earth following man’s will. When Jesus was betrayed by Judas, the protection of God was lifted and Jesus was placed in the heart of the earth, where God allowed men’s will to bring about the fate of Jesus. Like Jonah in the whale of the belly Jesus was facing death. They both cried to God to take this cup away, to be saved from death. Jesus was betrayed and he new his time was at hand, for three days and three nights from that time he suffered, of which that suffering brought him into perfection. He was betrayed, beaten, mocked, nailed to a cross, he died, and 3 days and three nights NOT from his death (since when is the grave an image of the HEART of the earth) but from the time he was betrayed and entered into man’s will (the heart of the earth) was 3 days and 3 nights.

    The body of Jesus was not allowed to see decay, the decay process happens HOURS within death. Jesus was placed in the tomb right before the Sabbath began and there was no guard at the tomb! When the Sabbath came Jesus was raised up entering God’s rest, and with no guard he slipped right out of the tomb unnoticed. When the Sabbath was over he rose up from where he had been resting, and he appeared to many.

    Jesus was not deserving of death, but he would die, but God would not allow his body to see corruption, he would raise it up to enter God’s rest, bringing his body into eternal life.

    John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. 20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? 21 But he spake of the temple of his body. 22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

    Jesus did not raise his own body from the dead. Jesus cannot be speaking here about him raising himself from the dead. God raised Jesus from the dead. What would Jesus be talking about? For 3 days while Jesus knew his time was at hand, he was denying temptation to save himself. He was beaten, mocked, and nailed to a cross, he had the powers of God to save himself, but he followed God’s will as he was subjected to the heart of the earth. Though his body was being destroyed and his mind was being tempted through his pain and fear, at that very time Jesus was being PERFECTED, the temple was being completed, it was being built up to a temple of perfection. 

    God would not allow His Holy One THIS PERFECTED TEMPLE to see decay, instead Jesus would be resurrected from the dead and this temple would be given eternal life.

     

    #834321
     Anthony 
    Participant
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    Hi Jodi        Good post.

    God bless

    #834322
     Anthony 
    Participant
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    Hi Nick

    Well Nick I don’t know really what to say to you. But I can’t help if I belive like other people,in some things and them me. I read history and other things around the Bible.yes Nick I go to web sites and see and share with people. I Can’t believe like you Nicik. In some mysterious religion that you make up along the way, sometimes you back yourself in a jam and really have to change the subject.  But there alot of things you don’t answer with scripture to people Nick things are left up in the air with you. Isn’t there others that you belive like, not in all things Nick no one has All truth.  I myself don’t see that pasting things from others as long as you agree to what is said. Nick I read history,  anything around the Bible Nick.  God bless.

    #834326
     NickHassan 
    Participant
    • Topics started 284
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    Hi Jodi,

    GENETIC CODE.?

    God could raise up children to Abraham from these stones.

    #834331
     t8 
    Participant
    • Topics started 895
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    The body we receive will be like Jesus body.

    He initially emptied himself and came in the flesh.

    He was then glorified and the body type he has now is the one we shall inherit.

    Beloved, we are now children of God, and what we will be has not yet been revealed. We know that when Christ appears, we will be like Him, for we will see Him as He is. And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.…

    Three points:

    1. We are now the children of God;
    2. What we will be has not yet been fully revealed;
    3. When Christ appears, we know we will be like him.
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