Firstborn of/over all creation

This topic contains 3,675 replies, has 33 voices, and was last updated by  Jodi 3 weeks, 1 day ago.

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  • #834258
     Anthony 
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    Hi All

    1. Get in God’s Word every day.

    Whether it’s a reading plan, a verse-of-the-day app, or listening to gospel music in the car or while you run, make God’s Word a part of your routine. Even if you just flip open your Bible before bed and read for five minutes, do something, and do it every day. Start small and then let it grow! The more familiar you make yourself with the voice of your Shepherd, the more easily you can recognize it.

    2. Take time to pray.

    Pray about little things, big things, silly things. Prayers don’t have to be long or formal. When you see something beautiful, say, “Thank you, God!” When you are moved to tears or giggles, just tell Him about it. When you don’t understand something, just let Him know. Develop trust in your Shepherd by sharing your fears, your hopes and your needs with Him.

    3. Take time for quiet.

    Take time to listen. When life gets chaotic and confusing, and you don’t know which path to take, pause and listen. What scriptures come to mind? Has God helped you with something similar in the past? Ask God to inspire you with His Holy Spirit. In my experience, if you ask, He always will! The more you pray and saturate your mind with God’s words, the more you will able to recognize His voice above the voice of the crowd.

    Be a sheep not a goat.

    #834259
     Anthony 
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    Hi All

    The central difference between sheep and goats—is really simple. It’s an idea that we can come back to when we need to stay on track: A sheep is led by its shepherd. A goatherd is led by his goat.

    #834260
     Anthony 
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    Hi All

    sheep of today are much different than sheep as they were created. Again, they have been bred in such a way as to produce fluffier, dumber sheep. But they are, and have always been, dependent on their shepherd and defenseless. Goats, on the other hand, have a reputation for being independent, opinionated and curious at best—or vulgar, dangerous and destructive at worst.

    Here are some fun quotes about goats from a livestock forum: “If you leave goats in with your horse, they may chew off his tail.”  some has described goats as ‘Jack Russells with hooves.’” “If your fence won’t hold water, it won’t hold a goat.” And about 50 testimonies of goats climbing and butting cars.

    So I would boil all that down this way: Shepherds protect shee9p from their environment, whereas goatherds protect the environment from their goats. So for us to be God’s sheep, we must depend on Him to defend us. If we push, take, destroy and bully, we are goats.

    The main thing though—the central difference between sheep and goats—is really simple. It’s an idea that we can come back to when we need to stay on track:  A sheep is led by its shepherd. A goatherd is led by his goat.

    Literally! Sheep follow the voice of their shepherd and trust him to lead them to food, water and safety. If they wander, which some do, the shepherd will go out and rescue them and bring them back to the safety of the flock. Sheep separated from their shepherd and flock are nervous and vulnerable because they have no defensive or offensive survival abilities.

    A goat, however, doesn’t follow anyone. A herd of goats goes where it wants, and the goatherd follows behind. Instead of grazing, goats “browse”—foraging for whatever strikes their fancy. So that tells us that if we are allowing ourselves to be led, being sensitive to the pull of God’s Spirit, and following the path of our Shepherd, we are sheep. If we are headstrong, going our own way, and pulling back against God’s Spirit, we are goats.

    So the thing that God sees in His sheep is a gentle and yielded spirit. They trust their Shepherd. They follow His voice. On the other hand (pun intended), the goats have a spirit of defiance, self-will, or independence from God’s involvement in their lives.                   God bless .

    #834261
     Jodi 
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    Nick,

    I just gave you scripture and you did not address them. God has mercy on whom He chooses to have mercy, those who did not receive his mercy we see Paul tell us do SERVE a purpose in order for God to perform His plan. What was that purpose?

    We are told that purpose,  “What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

    In order to CALL an elect number of people it was needed that we see a comparison, the fruit of those who have God’s Spirit working in them verses man’s ways who have not God. Remember Nick that the law was a tutor to bring people to Christ. The law showed man that he on his own is incapable of being made perfect by it, what the law did was it produced sin, “for where there is no law there is no sin”.

    Christ was able to follow the law because God had given him His Spirit without measure. Christ said only God was good and that he could do nothing of himself. So the law was a tutor to bring man to Christ, to show men that we also of our own selves can do nothing, we are not good, we need also to be anointed and led by God’s Spirit.

    You declare men to be good Nick from within themselves, because they have made the choice to follow God’s Spirit. This is contrary to the words of Jesus, which is that no MAN is GOOD. Goodness in a man is the work of God, it is God working His influence in man. As said before those who are Christ’s, those who God has given to Christ to be his saints, God had to call them into him. These are not my words but Christ himself’s words.

    Are we not also told that God WILL CAUSE people to follow Him, through changing their hearts? YES, God CAUSES people to follow Him. I spoke earlier about how guilt and shame are needed in order to bring a man into repentance. What is needed even before that, is a heart that has EMPATHY for others. Charity covers a multitude of sins. The Pharaoh lacked empathy, God had hardened his heart, any empathy that he might have had before was cut off, in order that God could make His power known.

    Romans 9 applies to what was needed in order to call the elect, in order to make the firstfruits of God’s Spirit, in order to make kings and priests.

    Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

    Revelation 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. 

    Those in the second resurrection are being raised to be judged. What was the process that occurred when God called the elect, they were punished, those whom God loves He chasteneth and scourgeth. He put them through the fire in order that they be made clean, for our God is a consuming fire. What are we told in Revelation, people are raised from the dead to be judged and placed into fire. The wicked are destroyed indeed, there will be no more wicked men. You say Nick that the people themselves are destroyed, but it is the sinful heart within them that is destroyed, and thus there is no liar, unbeliever, idolater, immoral person.  Those people had been placed in the fire and were refined.

    You want us to believe that people are being raised from the dead to be sentenced to death again. They are being raised to be judged according to their hearts and the deeds performed according to their hearts, and the amount of their wickedness will be measured by the amount that God must chasteneth and scourgeth them in the fire, to that which is necessary to bring them into remorse and repentance.

    Be thankful to God that He gave you His mercy, that He placed His Spirit upon you, and kept your heart from being wicked. Who would want to face the fire of the second death, who would want to feel that amount of shame and self loathing? This truth makes us all the more want God’s Spirit working in us, we want to be good, we do not want to fall and have to deal with the sort of shame and guilt that occurs in our hearts when going through the fire. The fire is not quenched until God is all in all.

    So my words you say Nick are not of God they are of the pit. You explain Romans 9 then Nick. You explain how we are told God is a consuming fire who uses that fire to punish and refine, but in the case of the fire in Revelation when men are indeed risen to be judged, a different fire is being spoken of.

    #834262
     GeneBalthrop 
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    Nick….what this mean to you,

    Rom 11:32….For God has concluded them “ALL” in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

    And again …1 Jn 2:2…And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours “ONLY”, but the sins of the “whole world”.

    Nick you say “opertunity” as if it is up to man to save himself, but scripture say different,

    Rom 8:29….For whom “HE” did foreknow “HE” also did “predestinate” to be conformed to the image of his son, that they might be the firstborn among many brethern. 30.. Moreover whom “HE” did “PREDESTINATE”, them “HE” also called: and whom he called, them “HE” also “JUSTIFIED”

    ROM 8:31…what shall we then say to these things?, i GOD be for us, who can be against us? Read the rest of the chapter also, and come back and tell us is it “opertunity” OF MAN or predestination by GOD?
    Who gets the glory man or God the Father?

    It’s all by FAITH and that FAITH, IS “GIVEN TO US”, BY GOD THE FATHER, from start to finish, you use of the word “opertunity” causing you to believe it’s up you to save yourself, that is not of faith, but of works. But we know we are saved not by works of law but by the Faith of our lord Jesus Christ.

    Nick, i thought you understood these things brother.

    Peace and love to you and yours. ……gene

    #834263
     GeneBalthrop 
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    Jodi….another good post sis, God bless you.

    Peace and love to you and yours. ….gene

    #834264
     Anthony 
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    Hi Jodi and Gene

    Good post the both of you

    God bless to the both of you. Stay in His Word.

    #834265
     Anthony 
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    Hi Jodi

    Great Scriptures. Great post.

    Romans 9 applies to what was needed in order to call the elect, in order to make the firstfruits of God’s Spirit, in order to make kings and priests.

    Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

    Revelation 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth

    I can’t help but to think from time to time that I want to make the first resurrection, so I can see Jesus as soon as possible, and the thought that we will be Kings and Priest with Him in the literal Kingdom it sounds selfish that I will be like Him. And see Him as He is. I can’t help to say, I hope I make it, I will hold on to Him . I don’t want to be a goat. God bless.

    #834266
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Gene,

    Wake up Gene.

    The meaning of ALL depends on the CONTEXT.

    What is the context in which it is written? Superficial reading of scripture is just folly.

    #834268
     Jodi 
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    Hi Nick,

    I think we should take a look at the entire chapter of Romans 11!

    Read it carefully Nick, and if you wouldn’t mind give us a summary of it’s message, so that we may have the CONTEXT you spoke about to Gene for verse 32.

    Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, 3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. 4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. 5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

    6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. 7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded 8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day. 9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them: 10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

    11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

    12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the WORLD, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? 13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

    15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the WORLD, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

    16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

    18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

    20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

    23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. 24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

    25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

    28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers’ sakes.

    29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. 30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

    33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! 34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor? 35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again? 36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

    #834270
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    The context of Rom 11 is the book of Romans and Romans 9 and 10. Written to the Jewish converts in Rome the book specifies in Romans 9-11 the relationship between God and His chosen people, the Jews.It is deceptive to apply this to all men.

    #834274
     GeneBalthrop 
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    Nick….Scripture say GOD IS NO RESPECTOR OF PERSONS. HIS WORDS ARE THE SAME FOR ALL. The grace of God abides on all his chosen ones. I believe If God “WILLS” NONE PARISH, then it is certanly possible NONE PARISH. You on the other hand deny the POWER OF GOD and his ability to save. Did not Jesus say, “ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE WITH GOD”?

    Should we trust in you, or GOD and Jesus Christ.

    Peace and love to you and yours. …..gene

    #834275
     Anthony 
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    Hi All

    Ezekiel 36:25-27
    25 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them. 

    Jeremiah 31:31
    Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.

    How beautiful and how wonderful God’s reassuring words to Israel are. God’s promise of the New Covenant should bring tremendous rejoicing in the heart of every Jew. The New Covenant is the outworking of the Abrahamic Covenant of faith. God will give a new heart and a new spirit to His people to believe in the Seed of Abraham, Jesus Christ.

    Ezekiel 36:28-30, 35
    28 Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; you shall be My people, and I will be your God. 29 I will deliver you from all your uncleanness. I will call for the grain and multiply it, and bring no famine upon you. 30 And I will multiply the fruit of your trees and the increase of your fields, so that you need never again bear the reproach of famine among the nations. 

    35 So they will say, ‘This land that was desolate has become like the garden of Eden 

    During the Millennial Kingdom, all of the Jews who survive the coming Great Tribulation and their descendants will live in the full extent of the land of Israel, as promised to Abraham. Israel will be blessed both spiritually and physically, and Israel will in turn bless all the nations of the earth.  God bless

    #834276
     GeneBalthrop 
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    Nick….Rom 11-12…is talking about the SALVATION of the whole WORLD. Not just the Jews as you falsely assume. All people are GOD’S CREATION and he will save them, if he so choses to. God has concluded us all unders sin, that he might have mercy on all he chosses too.

    Your chosen word “oppertunity”, shows how you believe you are saved, it actually shows a weakness in your trust in the power of GOD and Jesus in your SALVATION PROCESS. IT shows you are “self” reliant, so your ‘faith’ is in yourself, it seems more then GOD. The GRACE of God seems to play very little in your salvation process Nick.

    Please show us the word “oppertunity” written in scriptures relating to anyone salvation. Jew or Gentile.

    Peace and love to you and yours. …..gene

    #834277
     Anthony 
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    Hi  All

    Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.” Galatians 3:7. “For they are not all Israel which are of Israel; neither because they are the seed of Abraham are they all children… but the children of promise are counted for the seed.” Romans 9:6-8.

    The children of promise are those who put their faith in Jesus. It’s in the Bible: “And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise” Galatians 3:29. Amen.    God bless

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