Firstborn of/over all creation

This topic contains 2,764 replies, has 32 voices, and was last updated by  NickHassan 1 hour, 44 minutes ago.

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  • #832156
     Anthony 
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    Hi Gene

    When Jesus was asked, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you SEEN ABRAHAM?” Jesus replied, “Before Abraham was born, I AM.” Jesus did not say, “Before Abraham was born, I was” as if he was created before Abraham. By saying, “before Abraham was born, I am” in the context of John 8, Jesus affirmed that he always pre-existed as the timeless God of Exodus 3:14. For if Jesus meant the same thing as saying, “I am Jesus the Messiah,” then why would the Jewish Pharisees have “picked up stones to throw at him?” God bless

    #832161
     GeneBalthrop 
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    Anthony. ..those Pharisies alway misunderstoof Jesus, because it was not given to them to understand t h e truth of God, Jesus spoke to them only in parables so they wouldn’t understand what he was saying, the hearing they hear not, and seening they see not, as Isiah the prophets said.

    Had Jesus meant he was alive before ABRAHAM he wouls have simply said “I was alive before Abraham”. Why Doin you think scripture say Abraham look forward to the day of JESUS, and why does scripture say that the messiah would come from his “seed”, if he already was in existence.

    As i have told you Anthony, you have bought into the big lie,that turns Jesus, into a GOD, AND CAUSES PEOPLE TO WORSHIP HIM AS SUCH. 2 Ths 2, that man of sin there is talking about the false “IMAGE” created by the fallen church of Jesus being a God, he is the “only” one who has taken his seat in the temple of God from all mankind and is the only being worshiped as a GOD IN THE APOSTATE (FALLEN) CHURCHES. Go read it and understand it is talking about JESUS, AND see where you stand.

    Peace and love to you and yours. ……gene

    #832162
     Anthony 
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    Hi Gene do you believe the scriptures, (not me.)                                                Jesus replied, “Before Abraham was born, I AM.”    Gene do you believe that? God bless Gene

    #832164
     Anthony 
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    Hi Gene

    Jesus claimed to be God. He didn’t leave any other option open. His claim must be either true or false, so it is something that should be given serious consideration.

    Jesus’ question to His disciples, “But who do you say that I am?” (Matthew 16:15)

    First, suppose that His claim to be God was false. If it was false, then we have only two alternatives. He either knew it was false or He didn’t know it was false. What do you think Gene?

    13 When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, “Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?”

    14 So they said, “Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”

    15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”

    16 Simon Peter answered and said,“You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

    17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah,for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.     In V.14 they said  “Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” (they were just men) V.16 Peter says: You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

    What do you think about that. God bless

    #832166
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Anthony,

    Yes Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God.

    I am glad you agree with this.

    But then you keep trying to prove he is not the Son of God but God.

    Why is this?

    And you say he claimed to be God

    Where?

    The blind and ignorant Pharisees thought that was what he was claiming.

    Do you side with those who killed the Lord?

     

     

    #832169
     GeneBalthrop 
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    Anthony. …saying i am before a person is not the same as saying i was “born” before that person. If we were in a line and i was in front of you could not i say, before Anthony i am, that would have nothing to do with me being born before you now would it. In fact, if i were to reference a berth i would say i was “born” before you, so would have Jesus if that were what he was talking about.

    The parhasies believed that because they were from Abraham that gave them and advantage in life, but Jesus was simply telling them that he is before Abraham m in importance, not in berth. As i wrote to you befgore ABRAHAM LOOKED FORWARD TO THE DAY OF Jesus and saw it and was glad.

    That alone should tell you Jesus who was his “seed” (as scripture says) wasnot yet in existence.

    You are leaving of hundreds of scriptures to force the text to say what it in fact is not even in the least implying. Simply a case of the blind leading the blind.

    Peace and love to you and yours. …..gene

    #832196
     Anthony 
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    Hi Gene you said

    Anthony. …saying i am before a person is not the same as saying i was “born” before that person. If we were in a line and i was in front of you could not i say, before Anthony i am, that would have nothing to do with me being born before you now would it. In fact, if i were to reference a berth i would say i was “born” before you, so would have Jesus if that were what he was talking about. Do you really believe that Gene what scripture is that? God bless

    Gene I just posted on: pre-existed part 2  about this.

    #832197
     Anthony 
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    Hi Gene. Here are some different translation.

    John 8:58, NIV: “Very truly I tell you,’ Jesus answered, ‘before Abraham was born, I am!'”

    John 8:58, ESV: “Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.””

    John 8:58, KJV: “Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.”

    John 8:58, NASB: “Jesus said to them, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.'”

    John 8:58, NLT: “Jesus answered, ‘I tell you the truth, before Abraham was even born, I Am!'”

    John 8:58, CSB: “Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, before Abraham was, I am.”” God bless

    #832200
     GeneBalthrop 
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    Anthony…..you still do not get it, the Jews of that day trusted that because they were decedents of Abraham they had a spical connection with GOD, JESUS was simply telling them he is more important to them then Abraham is. The actual original Greek text says as i remember, says “i am before Abraham” and was given in more of a sense of importance to them then Abraham was.

    Think about it , if yoy were going to tell somebody you were alive before them would you say it that way, i think not. Why would scripture say ABRAHAM LOOK FORWARD TO HIS DAY, IFHE WAS ALREADY THERE. I HAVE MENTIONED THESE THING BUT YOU COMPLETELY FAIL TO ADDRESS THEM, SO NO PROGRESS CAN BE MADE. You have one scripture that can be forced to say what it infact does not specificaly say , we have hundreds the say something else.

    Why don’t you make a list of your supporting scriptures and a list of non supporting scriptures, you will find there are hunderds of scriptures that show he did not preexist before his berth on this earth, except he was prophesied tocome into existence at a certain time, right from the start of creation. There is not a single scripture that shows any activity of him before his berth, and very little activity of him before he was Baptized, and sent out into the world to preach the gospel of theking of GOD.

    Tell US this Anthony why would JESUS say this if he were a GOD, “FOR THOU, ARE THE “ONLY” TRUE GOD”, IF HE WERE A GOD?

    Peace and love to you and yours. ….gene

    #832205
     Anthony 
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    Hi Gene you just talk to me telling me to show scriptures . Well Gene I have been showing you proofing Scriptures you haven’t been showing to many you do alot of talking about your doctorines like people are just going to believe you that Jesus Christ was just a man please who made you God spokemam here on earth.your mostly telling people without scriptures most of the time. You should go back and see my post again there’s scriptures . You don’t says to much about them with scriptures. Look at your post. I’ll send you a scripture:

     Jesus answered and said to them, “Even if I bear witness of Myself, My witness is true, for I know where I came from and where I am going; but you do not know where I come from and where I am going. 15 You judge according to the flesh; I judge no one. 16 And yet if I do judge, My judgment is true; for I am not alone, but I am with the Father who sent Me.  Where do you suppose He came from and where He is going? 

    God bless Gene.

    #832206
     Anthony 
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    Gene you outright deny scripture God Word. God bless Gene

    #832207
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Anthony,

    The Spirit that spoke through him is from heaven.

    #832208
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Anthony,

    The Spirit that spoke through him is before Abraham.

    #832210
     Anthony 
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    Hi Nick you have to be kidding me. I’ll agree to this Nick.  that  Jesus Christ went to heaven with his Father.  He First had to be glorified before the Holy Spirit (the comforter)  the (Spirit of  truth) could come( that is the Spirit of Christ.) Seeing that there only one Spirit and it’s the Spirit of the Father and Son all things go through the Son. He has life in Himself His Father gave Him everything Nick, it’s the Spirit of Christ that came. Can you agree to that Nick. God bless

    #832211
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Anthony,

    Do you believe the Spirit came from heaven?

    Do you believe the Spirit spoke through Jesus Christ?

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