Firstborn of/over all creation

This topic contains 3,303 replies, has 33 voices, and was last updated by  NickHassan 3 days, 8 hours ago.

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  • #830687
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    Jesus Christ is Lord.

    Jn 10.7

    Truly, truly I am the door of the sheep.

    All who came before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.

    If you cannot align with words of Jesus Christ with the words that of those who came before guess which are right.

    Moses is not a liar so do not prefer him over Jesus Christ.

    The only confusion is in men.

     

     

    #830697
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Gene,

    So you body that houses you can die and rot but you would be still existing

    and if you were in Christ you would still be alive to God?

    #830700
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Gene,

    Heb 4.12

    For the Word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword

    and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow,

    and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

     

    Do you recognise the division between soul and spirit?

    #830703
     Jodi 
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    Hi Ed J,

    Okay let’s try this again,

    Consider the below scriptures, where death is referred to as sleep, not as going to heaven, and reward meaning immortality occurs when Jesus returns. 

    23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; AFTERWARDS they that are Christ’s AT his COMING.

    52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

    13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

    The DEAD in Christ which are referred to as being asleep will rise first. It does not say those in heaven will rise first.

    Hebrews 11 goes through a list of people who by faith proved that they were worthy of obtaining the reward but that they had NOT received it yet, at the end of the chapter we are told,

    39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: 40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

    Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Joseph, Moses, David all have yet to receive the promise, they SLEEP the sleep of death, until the last trumpet, when they will be raised and given the promise of eternal life.

    Given these scriptures Ed J, I don’t see how you do not realize that you have a problem with your Plato philosophy. Paul had spoken words that clarify the below message and it keeps the other scriptures which you seem to deny, in tact, not causing contradictions and making the bible into a mess of confusion. We see that Paul uses different words to represent the same thing.

    Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who WALK not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

    5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace…8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

    If Christ is in you the body is dead (this is not literal but spiritual)

    A person following Christ is not in the flesh (this too is spiritual it means that you do not follow mortal weak flesh, your not in the flesh it is NOT your home, rather you are at home with the Lord through His Spirit.

    Paul states that we do NOT WALK after the flesh but we walk after the Spirit, below he says we walk by faith not by sight, which means the same thing, as we walk by the Spirit of God which builds faith and not by sight which is to walk after the flesh.

    6 Therefore w. e are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: 7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) 8 We are confident, I say, and willing RATHER to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

    To be home in the body represents what Paul said in another verse of which was ye are IN the flesh if you are not walking according to God’s Spirit.

    To be home in the Lord represents what Paul said in another verse, you are IN the Spirit if the Spirit dwells IN you.

    Paul said your body is DEAD if Christ be in you, which equates to the SAME thing as Paul saying in another verse that you are ABSENT from the Lord if you are at home with the body.

    Paul said you are IN the Spirit if God’s Spirit dwells in you, which equates to the SAME thing as Paul saying in another verse that you are home with the Lord.

    The words Paul was speaking in verses 6-8 were spiritual not literal. You seem to contradict that by saying that they are literal and thus spiritual.

    Jesus when he was in the flesh, made the flesh with it’s desires, DEAD to him as he fully denied it and only followed God’s will. Jesus said that the Father was IN him, which means the same as  being at home with the Father.

    Jeremiah 23:11 For both prophet and priest are profane; yea, in my house have I found their wickedness, saith the LORD. 12 Wherefore their way shall be unto them as slippery ways in the darkness: they shall be driven on, and fall therein: for I will bring evil upon them, even the year of their visitation, saith the LORD.

    The prophets were spiritually considered to be in the HOUSE of God, but when they sinned and prophesied lies they were cast down. They were at HOME in the body, no longer considered to be HOME with God.

     

    #830713
     GeneBalthrop 
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    Jodi….I tell you they just do not get it, Man over and over and it just does not sink in. Well it’s not because they haven’t been wittinessed to, Your doing an excelent job Jodi.

    Truly what Peter said about some of Paul’s writings being hard for the unlearned to understand is present here, May God help us all.

    Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene

    #830774
     Ed J 
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    A person following Christ is not in the flesh (this too is spiritual it means that you do not follow mortal weak flesh, your not in the flesh it is NOT your home, rather you are at home with the Lord through His Spirit.

    Hi Jodi,

    Perfect! I agree with this completely!

    ________________
    Your brother
    in Christ
    Ed J

    #830775
     Ed J 
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    Hi Jodi,

    You cannot be absent from the body when you are in the body.

    Please explain how you can possibly believe that ???

    ____________
    God bless
    Ed J

    #830778
     GeneBalthrop 
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    Edj….In the spirit. If your thinking is on earthly things, you are (mentally) “in” the flesh, if you are in the spirit your (mental) thinking is spritual, and therefore you are in the spirit. But it takes the spirit of God to be spiritually minded, remember, “SPIRIT BEGETS SPIRIT”, “FLESH BEGETS FLESH”. those who are spirit minded beget spiritual things, those who are flesh minded beget fleshy things.
    It’s all about the thinking of the mind, That is the way i see it.

    Peace and love to you and yours. ……gene

    #830779
     GeneBalthrop 
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    Nick…Yes i do understand the division of the soul and spirit, the Soul goes in the grave and corrupts, the spirit goes back to God who gave it. Man then is no longer a “Living Soul” but a “Dead” Soul, and remains that way until the Spirit of God regenerates a new body and adds back into it the breath of life, and the man again becomes a “living soul’. “For we wait for the resurection from the dead, that will witness the redemption of our “BODIES”, says Paul.

    Peace and love to you and yours. …..gene

    #830780
     Jodi 
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    Hi Ed J,

    Thanks for your clarification question, you said

    “You cannot be absent from the body when you are in the body.

    Please explain how you can possibly believe that ???”

    Paul says that you are not IN the flesh but in the Spirit, however at this time we are still literally in our flesh. Likewise if Christ be in us the BODY is DEAD, but literally our bodies are not dead. When Paul says to be absent from the body is to be present from the Lord, he is speaking consistently as in the verse below, not speaking in literal terms but spiritual.

    9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

    You are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, meaning that you walk by faith in the Lord and you have no faith in your own body.

    To be of a mind set where you feel and act at home with your body, means you are walking by sight, you are relying on your flesh and following it.

    Makes me think of the expression home is where your heart is,

    Those who follow the flesh, their heart is at home with their body

    Those that follow the Spirit, their heart is at home with the Lord

    Paul says if you set your mind on the flesh you will follow the deeds of flesh, if you set your mind as if you are ABSENT from your body, not having your heart at home with your body, then your heart is at home with the Lord.

    The BODY Paul speaks of is in reference to the mortal body that is weak and fears death and that fear has dominion over us, telling us we must serve our flesh in order to survive. This is slander, as to have life we must serve the will of God. Serving the flesh leads to death, serving God leads to eternal life.

    John 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

    We are told that God gave all of His creatures a BODY as it pleased Him. Celestial bodies have one glory and terrestrial bodies have another glory.

    Having or not having a body has nothing to do with being able to be present (at home) with the Lord. Angels have bodies, Jesus was resurrected and sits at God’s right hand having a body. So clearly what Paul was saying could not possibly be literal. 

     

    #830784
     GeneBalthrop 
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    Jodi….exactly right sis, thats the same way i see it also.

    Peace and love to you and yours. ……gene

    #830785
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Gene,

    What do you understand about :

    Sheol,

    Hades.

    The Bosom Of Abraham,

    The mansions of Christ.

    Do they exist to you?

    If they do what do they hold?

    #830786
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Gene,

    Yu speak of a DEAD SOUL

    Are such things mentioned in the bible?

    You mean like the souls under the altar pleading with God in Revelation.?

    #830788
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Gene,

    Jesus taught on this

    ‘The rich man died and went to Hades.. ‘

    But according to you the rich man was a dead soul who had rotted away.

    Have you broken away from Jesus Christ, the teacher, on this matter?

    #830789
     GeneBalthrop 
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    • Total replies 16,292

    Nick….only go by what scripture said, when God the Father created “living” souls. It was a BODY, WITH THE BREATH OF LIFE “IN” IT. OR DOES your bible say more. So if we go by what you say then the scripture is lying right? Or how do you explain it. While your at it also tell us what happens to the millions of other kinds of living souls on this earth, what happens to their souls when they die? Are they resurected, if so are they then spirit beings to of somekind?

    Nick soul is meany time mistaken for “SPIRIT”. BECAUSE THE BODY WITH SPIRIT IS WHAT A COMPLETE SOUL IS, SOME MISTAKENLY THINK A SOUL IS A SPIRIT.

    This might help , remember when Jesus was about to die, WHt did he say, “Father i commend my spirit unto thy hands, nothing else. He know where his soul or “FLESH” WAS GOING, after it died. To the GRAVE WHERE it still would be, if God the Father didn’t raised it, the soul or the “BODY” UP, an add back the breath of life into “IT”.

    Nick surely you understand this right?

    You view shows no perpose for any resurection at all, Are spirit resurected? Please show us that in s ripture.

    Peace and love to you and yours. ……gene

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