Firstborn of/over all creation

This topic contains 1,772 replies, has 31 voices, and was last updated by  Jodi 16 hours, 26 minutes ago.

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  • #826277
     Lightenup 
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    Nick,

    you said: He is Lord, but not God.

    You have rightly said that they are distinct. Jehovah is both God and Lord, however.

    Read this Nick:

    Mark 12:28One of the Scribes approached him and he heard them debating and he saw that he had answered them beautifully and he asked him, “Which is the first commandment of all?” 29Yeshua said to him, “The first of all the commandments: ‘Hear Israel, THE LORD JEHOVAH your God, THE LORD JEHOVAH, he is One.’ “ 30“‘And you shall love THE LORD JEHOVAH your God with your whole heart and with your entire soul and with your entire mind and with all your power.’ This is the first commandment” 31“And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

    There are only two commandments. The first is to love the LORD Jehovah with your whole heart and soul and mind. The second is to love your neighbor as yourself.

    Ponder this…which commandment do you have Jesus in? Is He higher than you or equal to you as a neighbor. Do you love Jesus more than yourself or as much as yourself?  Is Jesus your Lord or your neighbor?

    #826278
     NickHassan 
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    Hi LU,

    The new creation of Almighty God is in Christ, joined together with him and his Father by the Spirit

    In this creation the Lord Jesus is the head of the body but every part has a role.

    All he expects of his servants is obedience to his commands

    What a privilege it is to be in the Son forever.

     

    #826280
     Lightenup 
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    Nick,

    You are avoiding the answer. How do you obey the two commands? Do you love the Son as yourself or as your Lord?

    #826284
     GeneBalthrop 
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    LU….Php 2:10…”that at the name of Jesus every knee “should” bow, things in heaven, and things in earth and things under the earth;
    11…And that every tongue should confess that Jesus The Christ (anointed one) is lord (adoni, a human ruler),to the glory of GOD the Father.

    That is the way i see it LU. I SEE NO SCRIPTURE that CALLS FOR US TO WORSHIP HIM AS A GOD, OF ANY KIND. Bow in submission yes, worship as a GOD, NO WAY. “For unto US, there is but ONE GOD, and one mediator between GOD and MAN, the (MAN) JESUS CHRIST. Yes Jesus (the Anointed one).

    Peace and love to you and yours. …..gene

    #826293
     Jodi 
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    Lightenup,

    Yes the One true God the Father is a Master. He is the Master over all, He is a Master over Jesus.

    The One True God the Father also appoints humans to be master over other humans.

    The Father has appointed Jesus to be a master over His Creation and over every human.

    He has also through Jesus the CHRIST appointed other men to be masters over other men, but Jesus is their master.

    All human masters whether they be Jesus or those under Jesus follow the WILL of the FATHER, that is what they are MASTERS OVER and master for —–God’s Will, God’s purpose, to fulfill God’s promise, to bring many human sons and daughters to glory, to eternal life.

    Jesus is the firstfruit of that glory, immortality in a MAN, and he will bring others to that glory, and then they will inturn also bring others to the glory.

    Jesus said, as the Father sent him into the world, he also sends his brethren into the world, all to do the WILL of the ONE TRUE GOD the FATHER!!

     

    #826296
     Jodi 
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    Lightenup,

    You asked, do I know of a man who has the name of their father, it is common?

    Yes of course I do, that is common knowledge.  My brother has the name of our father. The people were confused that John the Baptist’s name was John and not his father’s name.

    You have just proved my whole point, Jesus came in the NAME, as scripture says, of His Father, that does not make him his Father, nor does that give him the SAME identity of his Father, which is the ONE TRUE GOD, as Jesus himself says. Jesus never says that he is the One True God, he says that he came in his Father’s name, and that he came to do the WILL of his father. Not many men follow the will of their fathers these days, they follow their own will, this is what makes Jesus special, this is what gave Jesus his glory, his eternal life.

    Jesus has his own identity, the identity we are given is that of a fulfilled promise, a man of the seed of David, which is of a boy who grew in grace and wisdom and was perfected, a man that shed his blood for all and wiped away sin. This is quite different from the identity of His Father, an eternal being not capable of temptation or death.  Jesus said His Father was the Creator of the world, Jesus said his Father was his master, and Jesus said his Father was his God and our God. Just because your Father is God and you came in his name that does not make you equal and the exact same as your Father. My father was a logger from Coos Bay Oregon, and my brother came to be and was given the name of our father, so under your logic, that makes my brother a logger? He was never a logger, nor was Jesus ever the ONE TRUE GOD or the Creator of the world.

    Lightenup you think that the scripture is declaring that Jesus is a god that existed for all eternity  You want to tell us that the greatness of Jesus is that he was a god willing to become a human in order to save us, but he did so not by his will but by the will of the other part of your god who you recognize as the father. How messed up is this?? You want to say that they is one God made of two persons, who are one, but yet one did not come on his own according to his own will, as scripture clearly states, he came of the will of the Father. Most assuredly if God is ONE He has but ONE WILL!!

    What the scripture is declaring when Jesus says that he came in the name of his Father, is that he came as the seed of David according to the Father’s promise, to fulfill the WILL of his Father which was SALVATION, which was held in a purpose from the beginning, for humans to become eternal.

     

    #826299
     NickHassan 
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    Hi LU,

    You must understand the work of the Spirit.

    2 Peter 1..21

    ‘..for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God’

    Was Jesus a prophet, yes more than a prophet, but Peter quoted scripture about him.

    Acts 3.22

    ‘The Lord God will raise up for you a prophet like me from your brethren..’

    And John said about his teachings in Rev.19

    ’..Worship God. For the testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of prophecy’

    And he said in Jn 6.73

    ‘ ..  the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life’

     

    Men are vessels for the work of the Spirit

     

    #826300
     Jodi 
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    Lightenup,

    Jesus is not ashamed to call us his brothers and his sisters.

    Jesus is my brother, he is an eternal human being, and I too through him according to the same Spirit given to him by the Father, I will be given of that Spirit and become an eternal human being. Jesus is the firstfruits of the Holy Spirit, of which I will also partake and will be of the same kind as him. When he comes down as the son of man, as the heavenly man, he will have spent considerable time at the ONE TRUE GOD the FATHER’s right hand. He will be my master, my teacher, my elder brother so to speak, to guide me to follow the will of our Father. He will be my king to rule over me and my family, so that we can assist him in preparing the world in order for our Father to join us. He will be, but he is most certainly now already my master. His lordship is appointed by Jehovah, therefore if I follow him, I am following Jehovah, this does NOT make Jesus Jehovah, but a servant of Jehovah. A servant COMES in their Master’s name, to do the will of their master, and speak for their master. Likewise this Master can make His servant a master over others.

    Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus. You handed him over to be killed, and you disowned him before Pilate, though he had decided to let him go.

    How did God glorify Jesus?

    1 Peter 1:21 Through him you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him, and so your faith and hope are in God.

    1 Corinthians 15:20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

    Jesus is glorified by being a MAN given eternal life. It is a MAN that is coming, CHRIST is identified as a MAN, and it is CLEAR that the CHRIST is under the ONE TRUE GOD the FATHER, of whom CHRIST a MAN will be subject to, when the FATHER Himself comes to earth. Christ of the seed of David was a servant while in his flesh, he is a servant to Jehovah now as a heavenly man, and when he completes his Master’s will by being a master over others and destroying all enemies, he will continue to be subject to the ONE TRUE GOD the FATHER whose Holy Name is Jehovah.

    #826301
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    Yes God will give you the Spirit if you have been reborn of water.

    That promise is still valid for as many as the Lord God will call to Himself .Acts 2.39

    Even not w if you asked Him for a fish would He give you a snake. Neither wil He refuse the Spirit. Lk 11.11

    #826304
     GeneBalthrop 
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    LU… Jodi has presenting it “exactly” right, showing you true scriptures concerning our human ruler (Jesus), who is a fellow human being, and even better our brother, who is exactly like we are. Now glorified by our Father and his Father, our God and his God.

    Please consider “earnestly” what she and us are telling you LU, I know it may be hard to change, specially when you have been taught false teaching for such a long time, but this is a matter of your salvation, and is very important to us all.

    If anyone makes THE MAN Jesus unto A GOD, and worship him as such, they are commiting IDOLATRY, and IDOLATERS ARE “NOT” ACEPTED BY GOD.

    REMEMBER WHAT JOHN SAID, “little childern keep yourselves from IDOLS. TRINITARIANS HAVE TURNED THE “IMAGE” of the MAN JESUS INTO A GOD. WHICH MAKES HIM APPEAR TO THE WORLD, AS THE “MAN OF SIN”.

    REMEMBER THE FIRST COMMANDMENT, “THOU SHALL HAVE NO “OTHER GOD” BESIDES ME, YOU SHALL MAKE “NO” (IMAGE) OF ME IN HEAVEN ABOVE OR THE EARTH BENEATH”. YOUR (IMAGE) OF JESUS BEING A GOD, BREAKES THE FIRST COMMANDMENT, AND IS SIN.

    Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene

    #826306
     Jodi 
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    Lightenup I hope you can take some time and read through this,

    Phillipians 2:1 If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies, 2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. 3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. 4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.

    5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

    Is this speaking of a pre-existing Son who came down to earth humbling himself becoming a man?

    Well I guess it could possibly seem that way, except for one thing, it is talking about the mind of Jesus that he had on earth, not as someone coming down to earth.  It is talking about Jesus on earth being in the form of God. Not a pre-existing god being of the form of God and then becoming a man.

    Mark 1: 10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:

    Luke 4: 17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, 18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. 20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. 21 And he began to say unto them,This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

    God’s Spirit was upon Jesus, he had powers to heal the sick, to walk on water, to calm a storm, make water into wine, to feed 5,000 from 5 loaves of bread, to RAISE the DEAD!! Jesus had enormous power upon his baptism!! When he was tempted in the wilderness and he hungered he had the ability to make bread from stones, but he did not feed himself, he followed God’s will. What did Jesus say when the people were in great amazement?..he said that he does nothing of himself but through God. Did Jesus walk around seeing himself as a big celebrity? Of course he did not!

    We are told that God raises up kings and He also brings kings down. What did the king of Babylon do with his granted power, that was by no means equal in any way to the power bestowed upon Jesus? The king of Babylon said in his heart that he was going to be a god.  “13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.”

    Jesus on the other hand given Holy Spirit powers verses the kind of powers men receive by having authority and wealth, humbled himself and became a servant, obedient unto death, to serve us with redemption by his blood.

    This is the greatness of Jesus, for though he was in the same form as God having God’s Spirit, he did not exalt himself. His heart was nothing like the king of Babylon and so many other men.

    Luke 2:40 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.

    When God saw Jesus was ready He then anointed him with His Spirit, giving him the powers of His Spirit.

    Matthew 12: 18 Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.

    Jesus in that great power, as God had planned and foreknew, kept the mind of a servant.

    Because of this God exalted him, giving him the crown of eternal life.

    If you try and say this passage is speaking of a pre-existing Jesus who humbled himself by becoming a man and a servant, you make the Christ into antichrist. You take away his true glory, which was a man in the flesh having the power of the Holy Spirit who humbled himself.

    9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

    Jesus is our master because as he was a servant who God had chosen to give His Spirit to, in that power of God’s Spirit he remained a servant. This is AMAZING, this is unlike the character of any man we have seen throughout history. Jesus denied all temptation, he had absolute powers, and he did not use those powers one time to serve himself, he did not use those powers when he was being ridiculed, beaten, and nailed to a cross. Jesus is an amazing man to the glory of God.

    The beginning of this passage is to tell those, who were also receiving powers of the Holy Spirit, to be like minded with the mind of Christ.

    Not like minded with a pre-existing god, saying I will lower myself and become a human servant, but like minded as the man, born of the seed of David, who remained a servant even when he was in the form of God having God’s powers. 

    #826307
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    Yes the letter appeals to those who have likewise been anointed with the Spirit to walk as Jesus did.

    The Spirit has given us life so we are advised to walk in the Spirit.Gal 5

    It is the Holy Spirit that defines the body of Christ.

    On this rock I will build my church.

    If you do not have the Spirit of Christ you are none of his.Rom 8. And when we have received God’s investment in us of the Spirit we are urged to ask seek and knock, keep adding to the grace of God by prayer and letting His works be done through us.

     

    #826308
     NickHassan 
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    Hi,

    Acts 8.12f

    But when they believed Philip preaching the good news about the kingdom and the name of Jesus Christ, they were being baptised, men and women alike. even Simon himself believed and after being baptised, he continued on with Philip, and as he observed signs and great miracles taking place, he was constantly amazed. Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the Word of God, they sent them Peter and John, who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For He had not yet fallen on them, they had simply been baptised in the name the of the Lord Jesus. Then they began laying their hands on them and they were receiving the Holy Spirit.

    So the order of God for salvation is belief, baptism in the name of Jesus Christ and then baptism in the Spirit, by the laying on of hands, which can be done later, or God can do it in response to prayer. Lk 11.11f

    Do not be deceived as nothing has changed since the days of the apostles.

    #826394
     Lightenup 
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    Hi Jodi,

    Just this for now because it is late…

    5Now Moses was faithful in all His house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken later; 6but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house—whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end.

    Please note that there is a distinction between Moses as having been faithful in all His house as a servant BUT Christ was faithful as a SON OVER His house.

    Moses was the servant, Jesus is the Son. Moses was in His house, Jesus was/is OVER His house.

    The servant comes in his master’s name but a Son can be given His Father’s name AND come in His Father’s name.

    Scriptures clearly tell us that the Messiah will be called Jehovah our Righteousness. Jesus also mentions that the Father’s name was given to Him in John 17.

    John 17:11…I come to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are.12“While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.

    I will work through your latest posts before too long, thanks again for your time and effort.

    G’nite,

    LU

     

    #826396
     NickHassan 
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    Hi LU,

    Yes Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

    The Ethiopian Eunuch said

    ’ I believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God’

    Peter too was praised by the Lord for saying

    ’You are the Christ, the Son of the living God’

    Not God but the Son of God

    You cannot stand on two planks.

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