Examination of the incarnation doctrine.

This topic contains 3,211 replies, has 23 voices, and was last updated by  mikeboll64 6 years, 9 months ago.

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  • #266713
     Ed J 
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    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 04 2011,04:05)

    Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 03 2011,10:48)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 04 2011,02:58)
    So let's break it down:
    1.  John called Jesus the Word of God in Revelation.  


    Hi Mike,

    Where?

    God bless
    Ed J


    Chapter 19, verse 13.


    Hi Mike,

    The name Jesus is not mentioned there (Chapter 19, verse 13).
    “The Word” is another name for God's HolySpirit. (John 6:63)

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #266714
     Ed J 
    Participant
    • Topics started 155
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    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 04 2011,04:07)

    Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 03 2011,10:47)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 04 2011,02:50)

    Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 02 2011,00:29)
    If I would ask you if it was the Word made flesh that was dwelling among the people of that time and has a glory like the glory of the only begotten of God that John was speaking of then you would agree.   The difference between us is that you believe Jesus is the Word while I believe Jesus is the Word made flesh.


    Actually Kerwin,

    Our difference lies in the first line of verse 14.  You believe “the Word made flesh” is a noun phrase.  And that means that you really believe the first line speaks of “the Word THAT WAS made flesh”.

    Is that correct, Kerwin?  Because it can only be two ways, as far as I can tell:

    1.  The Word THAT WAS made flesh – as a noun phrase.

    2.  The Word BECAME flesh – as a noun/verb/modifier phrase.

    Which of these do you beleive?


    Hi Mike,

    Are they both not saying the same thing?

    God bless
    Ed J


    Ed,

    Consider:

    1.  The boy broke his leg and limped.  (Noun/verb/verb)

    2.  The boy with the broken leg limped. (Noun phrase/verb)

    So “NO”, they are not the same.


    Hi Mike,

    They are not worded the same, but they sure do mean
    exactly the same thing; do they not, yes or no?

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #266738
     mikeboll64 
    Participant
    • Topics started 79
    • Total replies 25,089

    Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 03 2011,11:58)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 04 2011,04:02)
    Ed,

    Was it not because of those very rules of grammar that you knew I was asking a question about Keith even though the word I used was “him”?


    Hi Mike,

    No, I really wasn't sure what you were talking about;
    but I remembered you earlier used the term “worshiping Jesus”
    (which is the name that Kieth goes by here), so I deduced you meant Kieth.

    God bless
    Ed J


    YES ED!

    What do you think I'm talking about here? ???

    BECAUSE I earlier said “Worshipping Jesus”, you then KNEW that the “him” refered BACK to Worshipping Jesus.

    Just like in 14-15. The Word is the subject mentioned. The name Jesus is nowhere to be seen. So the “his” and “him” OBVIOUSLY refer BACK to “the Word”.

    SEE ED? YOUR OWN WORDS SAY YOU DEDUCED FROM THE RULES OF GRAMMAR THAT THE “HIM” REFERED TO KEITH. SO YOU SHOULD EASILY BE ABLE TO DEDUCE FROM THOSE SAME RULES OF GRAMMAR THAT THE “HIS” AND “HIM” REFER BACK TO THE WORD. I'M GROWING VERY TIRED OF PLAYING GAMES WITH YOU!

    #266740
     mikeboll64 
    Participant
    • Topics started 79
    • Total replies 25,089

    Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 03 2011,12:09)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 04 2011,04:07)

    Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 03 2011,10:47)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 04 2011,02:50)

    Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 02 2011,00:29)
    If I would ask you if it was the Word made flesh that was dwelling among the people of that time and has a glory like the glory of the only begotten of God that John was speaking of then you would agree.   The difference between us is that you believe Jesus is the Word while I believe Jesus is the Word made flesh.


    Actually Kerwin,

    Our difference lies in the first line of verse 14.  You believe “the Word made flesh” is a noun phrase.  And that means that you really believe the first line speaks of “the Word THAT WAS made flesh”.

    Is that correct, Kerwin?  Because it can only be two ways, as far as I can tell:

    1.  The Word THAT WAS made flesh – as a noun phrase.

    2.  The Word BECAME flesh – as a noun/verb/modifier phrase.

    Which of these do you beleive?


    Hi Mike,

    Are they both not saying the same thing?

    God bless
    Ed J


    Ed,

    Consider:

    1.  The boy broke his leg and limped.  (Noun/verb/verb)

    2.  The boy with the broken leg limped. (Noun phrase/verb)

    So “NO”, they are not the same.


    Hi Mike,

    They are not worded the same, but they sure do mean
    exactly the same thing; do they not, yes or no?

    God bless
    Ed J


    No Ed,

    They don't.

    #266742
     Ed J 
    Participant
    • Topics started 155
    • Total replies 27,955

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 04 2011,07:43)

    Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 03 2011,11:58)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 04 2011,04:02)
    Ed,

    Was it not because of those very rules of grammar that you knew I was asking a question about Keith even though the word I used was “him”?


    Hi Mike,

    No, I really wasn't sure what you were talking about;
    but I remembered you earlier used the term “worshiping Jesus”
    (which is the name that Kieth goes by here), so I deduced you meant Kieth.

    God bless
    Ed J


    YES ED!

    What do you think I'm talking about here?  ???

    BECAUSE I earlier said “Worshipping Jesus”, you then KNEW that the “him” refered BACK to Worshipping Jesus.

    Just like in 14-15.  The Word is the subject mentioned.  The name Jesus is nowhere to be seen.  So the “his” and “him” OBVIOUSLY refer BACK to “the Word”.

    SEE ED?  YOUR OWN WORDS SAY YOU DEDUCED FROM THE RULES OF GRAMMAR THAT THE “HIM” REFERED TO KEITH.   SO YOU SHOULD EASILY BE ABLE TO DEDUCE FROM THOSE SAME RULES OF GRAMMAR THAT THE “HIS” AND “HIM” REFER BACK TO THE WORD.  I'M GROWING VERY TIRED OF PLAYING GAMES WITH YOU!


    Hi Mike,

    Would you rather play (less tiring) games with the others?

    Like I said: it was not your use of grammar, but my
    recollection of the user name “worshiping Jesus”,
    that clued me in on who you may have meant.

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #266743
     Ed J 
    Participant
    • Topics started 155
    • Total replies 27,955

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 04 2011,07:45)

    Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 03 2011,12:09)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 04 2011,04:07)

    Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 03 2011,10:47)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 04 2011,02:50)

    Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 02 2011,00:29)
    If I would ask you if it was the Word made flesh that was dwelling among the people of that time and has a glory like the glory of the only begotten of God that John was speaking of then you would agree.   The difference between us is that you believe Jesus is the Word while I believe Jesus is the Word made flesh.


    Actually Kerwin,

    Our difference lies in the first line of verse 14.  You believe “the Word made flesh” is a noun phrase.  And that means that you really believe the first line speaks of “the Word THAT WAS made flesh”.

    Is that correct, Kerwin?  Because it can only be two ways, as far as I can tell:

    1.  The Word THAT WAS made flesh – as a noun phrase.

    2.  The Word BECAME flesh – as a noun/verb/modifier phrase.

    Which of these do you beleive?


    Hi Mike,

    Are they both not saying the same thing?

    God bless
    Ed J


    Ed,

    Consider:

    1.  The boy broke his leg and limped.  (Noun/verb/verb)

    2.  The boy with the broken leg limped. (Noun phrase/verb)

    So “NO”, they are not the same.


    Hi Mike,

    They are not worded the same, but they sure do mean
    exactly the same thing; do they not, yes or no?

    God bless
    Ed J


    No Ed,

    They don't.


    Hi Mike,

    How so, please explain?

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #266746
     mikeboll64 
    Participant
    • Topics started 79
    • Total replies 25,089

    Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 03 2011,14:52)
    Like I said: it was not your use of grammar, but my
    recollection of the user name “worshiping Jesus”,
    that clued me in on who you may have meant.


    So are you saying you don't recollect “the Word” that was just mentioned in verse 14? ???

    #266747
     mikeboll64 
    Participant
    • Topics started 79
    • Total replies 25,089

    Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 03 2011,14:53)
    Hi Mike,

    How so, please explain?


    Noun/verb/verb

    Noun phrase/verb

    If you cannot see the difference, then I cannot help you.

    #266758
     Ed J 
    Participant
    • Topics started 155
    • Total replies 27,955

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 04 2011,07:56)

    Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 03 2011,14:52)
    Like I said: it was not your use of grammar, but my
    recollection of the user name “worshiping Jesus”,
    that clued me in on who you may have meant.


    So are you saying you don't recollect “the Word” that was just mentioned in verse 14?  ???


    Hi Mike,

    Your mixing peas and spaghetti noodles, meaning
    you're applying my answer to a different question;
    a question, I might add, that you have not asked.

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #266760
     Ed J 
    Participant
    • Topics started 155
    • Total replies 27,955

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 04 2011,07:58)

    Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 03 2011,14:53)
    Hi Mike,

    How so, please explain?


    Noun/verb/verb

    Noun phrase/verb

    If you cannot see the difference, then I cannot help you.


    Hi Mike,

    Please explain why you think that makes any difference?

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #266762
     mikeboll64 
    Participant
    • Topics started 79
    • Total replies 25,089

    Ed,

    Why do you think I went through the “do you like him” exercise in the first place?  I was setting you up.  I knew that you knew the truth of the grammar, so I invented a group of sentences with a subject, and “his” and “him” pronouns.

    You handled the sample sentence brilliantly, because it is simple common sense that the “his” and “him” refer back to the subject, which was “Worshipping Jesus”.

    And that proved to me that you understand the grammar rules.  And since you proved to me that you understand the rules, I can logically come to my conclusion that although you understand the rules of John 1:14-15, you are willing to avoid, ignore, or break those rules to achieve your desired result.

    And that is the conclusion I have come to with you, Ed.

    #266764
     mikeboll64 
    Participant
    • Topics started 79
    • Total replies 25,089

    Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 03 2011,15:46)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 04 2011,07:58)

    Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 03 2011,14:53)
    Hi Mike,

    How so, please explain?


    Noun/verb/verb

    Noun phrase/verb

    If you cannot see the difference, then I cannot help you.


    Hi Mike,

    Please explain why you think that makes any difference?

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org


    Let me try a different one, Ed.

    The boy ran and jumped.

    The boy who ran jumped.

    The first one implies a boy running and jumping in a single occurance – like a day at the park.

    The second one could be speaking of a boy who ran 20 years ago, then lost his legs, had new ones sewn back on, and was finally able to jump 20 years later.

    Ed, I have neither the time nor the patience to do an English grammar lesson with someone like you. You play too many games and are many times a waste of my time.

    This post wasn't even to you, so let it go. My official answer to you is: Ed, if you still can't see the difference, then it is none of your business, because I was talking to Kerwin anyway.

    #266765
     Ed J 
    Participant
    • Topics started 155
    • Total replies 27,955

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 04 2011,08:53)
    Ed,

    Why do you think I went through the “do you like him” exercise in the first place?  I was setting you up.  I knew that you knew the truth of the grammar, so I invented a group of sentences with a subject, and “his” and “him” pronouns.

    You handled the sample sentence brilliantly, because it is simple common sense that the “his” and “him” refer back to the subject, which was “Worshipping Jesus”.

    And that proved to me that you understand the grammar rules.  And since you proved to me that you understand the rules, I can logically come to my conclusion that although you understand the rules of John 1:14-15, you are willing to avoid, ignore, or break those rules to achieve your desired result.

    And that is the conclusion I have come to with you, Ed.


    Hi Mike,

    How do you know that all the translators are playing by
    the rules that you proclaim that they should be translating by?
    Furthermore, how can you be sure that they accurately translated
    the true meaning that God intended from one language to the next?

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #266766
     Ed J 
    Participant
    • Topics started 155
    • Total replies 27,955

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 04 2011,08:57)

    Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 03 2011,15:46)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 04 2011,07:58)

    Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 03 2011,14:53)
    Hi Mike,

    How so, please explain?


    Noun/verb/verb

    Noun phrase/verb

    If you cannot see the difference, then I cannot help you.


    Hi Mike,

    Please explain why you think that makes any difference?

    God bless
    Ed J


    Let me try a different one, Ed.

    The boy ran and jumped.

    The boy who ran jumped.

    The first one implies a boy running and jumping in a single occurance – like a day at the park.

    The second one could be speaking of a boy who ran 20 years ago, then lost his legs, had new ones sewn back on, and was finally able to jump 20 years later.

    Ed, I have neither the time nor the patience to do an English grammar lesson with someone like you.  You play too many games and are many times a waste of my time.

    This post wasn't even to you, so let it go.  My official answer to you is:  Ed, if you still can't see the difference, then it is none of your business, because I was talking to Kerwin anyway.


    Hi Mike,

    Now that I understand you premise,
    please explain the application where you are using it.
    If not for me, then for whomever may want to know as I also want to know.

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #266809
     GeneBalthrop 
    Participant
    • Topics started 42
    • Total replies 16,376

    Mike………The both refer to a past by the word jumped .

    peace and love…………………………………………….gene

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