Examination of the incarnation doctrine.

This topic contains 3,211 replies, has 23 voices, and was last updated by  mikeboll64 6 years, 6 months ago.

  • Author
    Posts
  • #237440
     Baker 
    Member
    • Topics started 2
    • Total replies 2,348

    Quote (Paladin @ Feb. 26 2011,10:03)

    Quote (Baker @ Feb. 26 2011,04:42)

    Quote (Paladin @ Feb. 25 2011,10:51)

    Baker,Feb. wrote:

    Paladin!  Hello, how about all these Scriptures

    Col 1:13   Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the kingdom of his dear Son:  

    Col 1:14   In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:

      Col 1:15   Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:  

    Col 1:16   For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:  

    Col 1:17   And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

    Rev 3:14 ¶ And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;  

    Jhn 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.  

    Jhn 1:2   The same was in the beginning with God.  

    Jhn 1:3   All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.  

    Jhn 1:14 ¶ And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.  

    In order to explain what The Word of God is this Scripture tells us.

    Rev 19:13   And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.  

    Rev 19:14   And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.  
    Rev 19:15   And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.  
    Rev 19:16   And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.  
    Jhn 6:38   For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

    Jhn 8:57   Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?  
    Jhn 8:58   Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

    Jhn 6:46   Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.  

    This last Scripture I have to ask you, how did Jesus see his father before He came to earth, if He din't exist before the World was.  Also in this next scripture what glory did Jesus have?

    Jhn 17:4   I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.  

    Jhn 17:5   And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

    Is Jesus not now in Heaven with His Father…  Sitting on the Throne next to Him.  Only a Spirit being can……And Jesus is, and Jesus was……

    Peace and love Irene


    (Irene)

    Quote
    Col 1:13   Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the kingdom of his dear Son: Col 1:14   In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:  Col 1:15   Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

    Fair question. I do not wonder that Jesus is the image of God, for he is a man, and all men are the image of God.  “For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God:”

    Quote
    Col 1:16   For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

    See that little limiting parameter there in the verse, Irene?  
    “Whether…” tells us the scope and depth of “all things” of which it is said he is the creator; ” For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers…”

    So Christ created all things, “whether they be thrones, or dominions or principalities or powers…”

    This is a reference to the downward adjustment all thrones, dominions, principalities and powers had to make when he was raised to the right hand of God, to accomodate his new position as second in the kingdom of God. They had to shift down one position.

    Quote
    Col 1:17   And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

    Right! Resurrected christ is first, then when the resurrection of all takes place, he will at that point “have been first.”

    Quote
    Rev 3:14 ¶ And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;  

    Right! The creation of God began with heaven and earth and all that therein is; then proceeded to resurrected “new” beings, never before seen in creation. And Jesus was first of those firstborn from the dead, and as first, until the general resurrection, he will be the “only begotten” from the dead.

    Quote
    Jhn 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    “In the beginning was ho logos, and ho logos was with ton theon, and ho logos was theos.”

    “ho logos” and “theos” are not interchangable terms, because
    “theos” is unarticulated. When “ho logos” became flesh,
    “theos” did not. If you assume “ho logos” and “theos” to be interchangeable, you then have all of God being all of what
    “ho logos” is, because “theos” would have to be “ho theos,” with the article like “ho logos” and you will  have Sabellianism.

    As A. T. Robertson says on page 768, The absence of the article here is on purpose and essential to the true idea.”

    Another misapplied option, is to do what the JW's do with this verse, i.e., translate “the logos was a God.” It is not supported by the Greek, for the Greek has no indefinite article, and the English does not require it for comprehension.

    Quote
    Jhn 1:2   The same was in the beginning with God.  

    Jesus said to his disciples “But these things have I told you, that when the time shall come, ye may remember that I told you of them. “And these things I said not unto you at the beginning, because I was with you.” [John 16:4]

    Jesus was with the disciples in the beginning of his ministry, the beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, not the beginning of creation. Jesus and John are speaking of the same beginning. And since John tells us later (69 a.d.) in the Revelation, that Jesus will be given a new name, and that name will be “the Logos of God,” then “the logos of God” could not have been Jesus' name at the beginning of his ministry, nor at the creation beginning.

    Quote
    Jhn 1:3   All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

    Look to II Cor 5:17 for a clue as to the language John uses in John 1:3, and how the words are used in both passages;

    “Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are gegonen [become] new.” [II COr 5:17]

    “All things became egeneto [were made] by him; and without him not any thing egeneto [became] that gegonen [has become].” [John 1:3]

    For just a touch more enlightenment as to how this word is used in scripture, look for a moment at Luke 23:12 “And the same day Pilate and Herod egenonto [were made] friends together…” All these wordforms are derived from the Greek
    “ginomai” which references a change that takes place, as in a new creation, rather than the original creation.

    Quote

    Jhn 1:14 ¶ And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

    When “ho logos” became flesh, “theos” did not.

    Quote
    In order to explain what The Word of God is this Scripture tells us.

    Rev 19:13   And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.  

    Rev 19:14   And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.  
    Rev 19:15   And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.  
    Rev 19:16   And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.  
    Jhn 6:38   For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

    Right! If John tells us “ho logos tou theou” – a new name, it could not have been a prior known name, which is supported by the Greek use of “kainon” which means “new,not previously known, not previously used.”

    And John is not telling us “ho logos” is a name of God, but that it is a name of something that belongs to God; i.e, “ho logos.”

    Quote

    Jhn 8:57   Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?  
    Jhn 8:58   Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

    Jesus was telling the Jews “before Abraham became (ginomai) I was.” He is referencing the Messianic prophecies. Jesus, in prophecy, preceded Abraham.

    That Greek “eimi” can be properly understood to mean “was” is supported by at least two verses in which “eimi” is translated
    “was,” the 1st is found in Luke 19:22 “And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I [eimi] was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:” [Eimi is present active 1st person singular in this reference – but it is translated to accomodate “knewest” which  is pluperfect active]  [The pluperfect is used to describe an action that was completed and whose effects are felt at a time after the completion but prior to the time of the speaker's present.]

    And the 2nd is found in II Chron 33:13 – “And prayed unto him: and he was intreated of him, and heard his supplication, and brought him again to Jerusalem into his kingdom. Then Manasseh knew that the LORD he eimi was God.”
    [eimi is present active 3rd person singular][translated “was” to accomodate aorist active “known” [egnw].

    Quote
    Jhn 6:46   Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

    Both John 6:46 and 8:47 reference “He that is of God” –
    John 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save [o` w'n] (he which) is  tou theou [of God], he hath seen the Father.

    John 8:47 [ho wn] (He that is) of [tou theou] (God) heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

    The person is “of God” that listens to God's words, and does them. Too many Church teachers know only of Jesus as being “of God” but that is not scriptural.
     

    Quote
    This last Scripture I have to ask you, how did Jesus see his father before He came to earth, if He dind't exist before the World was.

    The same way Abraham “rejoiced to see my day” and was glad. Abraham paid attention to God's promises, and accepted them as truth.  And it was not “before he came to earth” as you suggest. Nothing of the sort is referenced in the referenced verse.

    Quote

    Also in this next scripture what glory did Jesus have?

    Jhn 17:4   I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.  

    Jhn 17:5   And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

    It is the glory God promised in scripture, “He shall be extolled and be very high.” [Isa 52:13]

    Just as we were promised eternal life before the world began -“In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;” [Titus 1:2]

    Quote
    Is Jesus not now in Heaven with His Father…  Sitting on the Throne next to Him.  Only a Spirit being can……And Jesus is, and Jesus was……

    Do you really think the sea is going to hold spirits, and the earth is going to hols spirits until resurrection? No my friend, they will hold corrupted bodies until the spirit is reunited with them, to become once more eternally living s
    ouls. And that is God's “new heaven and new earth, created by Jesus Christ.

    Quote
    Peace and love Irene

    And grace and hope.


    Paladin!  yes, He is not only the image of God, but also in the form of God
    Phl 2:6   Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:  
    Phl 2:7   But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
     
    Col.1:16 does not say it is a adjustment you are adding that.
    Col. 1:17 is not the resurrection that is verse 18

    Col 1:18   And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.  

    Jesus was both firstborn of all creation, and firstborn of the death.  So HE MAY HAVE PREEMINENCE.  You are smart, I think you know what preeminence means.  But just in case you don't, it means above before others.

    Rev 3:14 ¶ And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

    Again, you are adding.  IT says that He is thE BEGINNING OF GODS CREATION. NOT THE BEGINNING OF THE RESURRECTION.  

    Rev 19:13   And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.  

    Rev 19:14   And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.  

    Rev 19:15   And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.  

    Rev 19:16   And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.  

    So you are denying that this is Jesus The Word of God, who will come again to earth and set all straight?  Who else is called KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS in the Bible.

    You are assuming a lot my friend and denying some good Scriptures.  
    all the other Scriptures you quote I agree with, but that does not take away what all other Scriptures teach.  

    Jhn 8:57   Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?  

    Jhn 8:58   Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.  
    again, you make very conveniently something else out of what it really says.

    Jesus also said that He came from Heaven to do the will of His Father who send him.  

    Jhn 6:38   For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.  
    He is the Breath of life

    Jhn 6:32   Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.  

    Jhn 6:35   And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.  

    i believe Jesus, I know that He came from Heaven to do Gods will. I believe Jesus and not man….
    Peace Irene


    Quote
    Paladin!  yes, He is not only the image of God, but also in the form of God
    Phl 2:6   Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:  
    Phl 2:7   But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

    1st) “form” is not articulated, so paul is saying Jesus was in form of God. eliminate “the” and it references “form God” in a very different way. All christians are in form God, as God lives in us and influences the changes in our lives.
     

    Quote
    Col.1:16 does not say it is a adjustment you are adding that.

    Jhn 6:35   And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.  

    I am explaining it because the translation is limited to general knowledge of several centuries ago.

    Quote
    Col. 1:17 is not the resurrection that is verse 18

    So, if you believe in two resurrections, I suppose you could say that. “And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.” [Col 1:17]

    Paul is writing about events that are recent past, not ancient history. When Paul, writing in 60 a.d. says something about Jesus “is” rather than “was,” he is not writing about prehistoric events, but rather is writing about things accomplished, but of which Paul still feels the effect.

    “He is before all things” is not a reference to “He was before all creation…” Rather it is a reference to “He is now” either chief, or first in priority, or first in chronological order. As he is first in chronological order raised from the dead, and as older brother “firstborn among many brethren” is first in priority, it necessarily make “He is before all things” reference the fact all creation will follow his resurrection in their own resurrection.

    Quote
    Col 1:18   And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.  

    Jesus was both firstborn of all creation, and firstborn of the death.  So HE MAY HAVE PREEMINENCE.  You are smart, I think you know what preeminence means.  But just in case you don't, it means above before others.

    “That in all things he might have the preeminence” explains the significance of “who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead.” It is talking about the beginning of the new creation, not the beginning of original creation.

    Quote
    Rev 3:14 ¶ And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

    Again, you are adding.  IT says that He is thE BEGINNING OF GODS CREATION. NOT THE BEGINNING OF THE RESURRECTION.

     

    That's an assumption on your part. I have already told you, my friend, that there are more than one creation. I perhaps did not elaborate enough, but space become important in a long post.

    There was original creation, accomplished by God working with wisdom; there was the new creation of which Jesus was involved; there is the creation of a new type of being, resurrected persons. Some even consider the church to be the 3rd creation, where there is neither male nor female, neither Jew, not Gentile, but all are one in Christ Jesus. I would not argue with that, nor would I make it a test of fellowship.

    Quote
    Rev 19:13   And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.  

    Rev 19:14   And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.  

    Rev 19:15   And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.  

    Rev 19:16   And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.  

    So you are denying that this is Jesus The Word of God, who will come again to earth and set all straight?  Who else is called KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS in the Bible.

    I know it is difficult to assimilate all that scripture says about the subject, but it becomes necessary when the whole church has been mislead for centuries, and to this day, reads the scripture backwards, to learn what words say and mean. John's gospel is not the first book written, so why would I look to John to tell me what “logos” means? John's gospel is the lsat book written, and he never corrected what Paul had written about “the logos of God” over sixty years before.

    Jesus is not the logos of God. “The logos of God” is not a person, it is a concept whereby “I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me
    : and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.” [Gal 2:20]

    “My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,” [Gal 4:19]

    “Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you,” [II Cor 13:5]

    ” If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; 24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church: 25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the logos [word] of God;
    26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
    27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: ” [Col 1:23-27]

    Paul taught us that “The logos of God” is the idea or concept of me living aa lifestyle in which Christ can be formed in me, so that I no longer live, but at some point, Christ lives my life for me, because I lost my life in submission to God. It is a great concept, a Holy concept, and a wonderful thing to behold when a new saint submits to Christ, allows Christ to live his life for him, so that it is no longer the saint, but Christ living in the saint, and the logos of God is personified, becomes flesh once again, and will continue to do so as long as men will submit to the concpet of “The logos of god” becoming flesh in their lives.  

    Quote
    You are assuming a lot my friend and denying some good Scriptures.

    Well my friend, (I hope that still appeals to you) if you will read the scriptures in the order in which they were written, and learn how words give their meaning, in the order in which they were taught, you will find a far different “Logos of God” than you will by reaidng John's gospel for the meaning of  
    “logos.”  

    Quote
    all the other Scriptures you quote I agree with, but that does not take away what all other Scriptures teach.  

    Jhn 8:57   Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?  

    Jhn 8:58   Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.  
    again, you make very conveniently something else out of what it really says.

    Not when you take into consideration the use of eimi to read
    “was” instead of “is.”

    Quote
    Jesus also said that He came from Heaven to do the will of His Father who send him.  

    Jhn 6:38   For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

    That was an appeal to authority. “John's baptism whence cometh it? From heaven or of men?” What John taught with his baptism came from heaven, and what Jesus taught came from heaven. And what Jesus was came from heaven, all other men came from God's instruction to Adam and Eve to increase and multiply and replenish the earth.

    Quote
    i believe Jesus, I know that He came from Heaven to do Gods will. I believe Jesus and not man….

    But you believe men for everything you think you know. It was men who began reading John's gospel before Paul's teaching, and it was men who moved the ancient manuscripts to line up with how the books are listed and published in bibles today, and that is founded in doctrine not inspiration.

    Look, my friend, and the only sign God gave to the whole world, that nobody acknowledged, and only now is the Holy Spirit bringing attention to it to show his approval –

    In 451 a.d. at teh council of Chalcedon, the trinity doctrine was declared for the final time “orthodox doctrine.” Then in 452 a.d., the pope turned the church over to the Emperor Marcian for punishment for heresy, and that punishment was death through torture, contrary to Jesus' own words – “These things have I spoken unto you that ye should not be offended. 2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service. 3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.” [John 16:1-3]

    God gave his sign of disapproval, by instigating a 1000 year judgment on the earth, the “dark ages” which lasted till 1452 when the first bible came off the printing press for the first time, and truth no longer resided exclusively in the hands of “orthodox position” but was taken from the hands of clergy and given to the hands of common men.

    Quote
    Peace Irene

    And grace and Hope to you.


    Palatine!  All I am going to say to you yet, you are interpreting those Scriptures not the way they are written, but the way YOU want them to say.  That is adding to those Scriptures and to me, that is 100% wrong.  and all Christians are not in the form of God.  that is so wrong.  there will be the elect that will be in the form of God, like Jesus is, but not all or even not now.  
    Phillipians not only say the form of God, and o yes, it is articulated, just the way it is written.  I don;t understand why you think that.  But it also says that JESUS WAS MADE TO THE LIKENESS OF MAN. If He was made like that t
    hen He had to be something else first.  
    And what form is God?  If Jesus was in the form of God, then He was like God.  We all know that God is Spirit.  And also He had a glory with His Father before the World was. ( John 17:5) And like I said before, We know he is Spirit now.  Or do you disagree with that? That is what Jesus asked His Father to go back to.
    One other thing I did not mention about John 1;1 who is it that became flesh in verse 14?  John 1:1-13 shows that there are two, not one.  Then who is it, if not Jesus, who became flesh.

    you say a lot, but I don't believe a word you say, because you add to Scriptures and say the opposite of what is written. And give other Scriptures that have nothing to do with it.  And say other things about our Christian lives, which I agree with, but has nothing to do with the preexistibg of Jesus.  
    One more thing you say The Word of God is the logos in John 1:1,  so the logos became flesh? That is why I gave you Rev. 19 to show you that it is not the logos, but Yeshua…is Rev. 19 logos too?  Well I don;t think so, no I know so….You are lijke Ed, He believes it is the Holy Spirit….. that is wrong too.  
    I don't belong to any Church and did not believe in the preexisting of Jesus until God's Holy spirit taught us.  Your theory about that is wrong too.  .
    funny you say that Christ is forming in you, yet before you said we are already in the Form of God.  Which is it????  
    As far as the logos is concerned most of the Bible is.  But not John 1;1, John tells us also that what Jesus said, that He came from Heaven, to do the will of His Father who send Him. MMMM send Him?  Where was Jesus?  Oh yes, He was in Heaven.  not the logos.  There are six scriptures in John that talks about what Jesus said.  No the logos did not become flesh.  That is your interpretation of the Word of God.    

    As far as the trinity is concerned, I don't know were you got your information from.  But it was in the third century after three brutal and bloody centuries that Quintus Septimus Florence Tertullian first came up with the trinity.  And in AD 324 it was Constantine who issued an edit permitting all Christians to worship openly.   In AD 325 Constantine calls the first ecumenical council at Nicea.  It was also Constantine who changed our Calendar and times.  The year starts in the cold of Winter, while Gods starts in the Spring. also all Holy Days of God became all holidays like Christmas and Easter.    It was also the Roman Universal Church that persecuted the Christians, whoever kept Christs death.  It was condemned.  Universal means Catholic…i don't know where you got that the Pope gave the Church over to the Emperor Marcian.  Georg my Husband did some studies on Ancient History, and He too never heard of Him.  If you ever ask a Catholic Priest, He will deny that the Church was ever given over to anyone. They also believe that Peter is the first Pope, and that Popes ruled ever since.
    Peace Irene

    #237442
     GeneBalthrop 
    Participant
    • Topics started 42
    • Total replies 16,087

    Quote (Paladin @ Feb. 26 2011,10:03)
    [
    1st) “form” is not articulated, so paul is saying Jesus was in form of God. eliminate “the” and it references “form God” in a very different way. All christians are in form God, as God lives in us and influences the changes in our lives.
     

    Quote
    Col.1:16 does not say it is a adjustment you are adding that.

    I thought you knew, when I put “_”'s at each end of the sentence, that is all that is included in the quote. All else is commentary. Kinda similar to what I see in your posts. Only I understand it.

    I am explaining it because the translation is limited to general knowledge of several centuries ago.

    Quote
    Col. 1:17 is not the resurrection that is verse 18

    So, if you believe in two resurrections, I suppose you could say that. “And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.” [Col 1:17]

    Paul is writing about events that are recent past, not ancient history. When Paul, writing in 60 a.d. says something about Jesus “is” rather than “was,” he is not writing about prehistoric events, but rather is writing about things accomplished, but of which Paul still feels the effect.

    “He is before all things” is not a reference to “He was before all creation…” Rather it is a reference to “He is now” either chief, or first in priority, or first in chronological order. As he is first in chronological order raised from the dead, and as older brother “firstborn among many brethren” is first in priority, it necessarily make “He is before all things” reference the fact all creation will follow his resurrection in their own resurrection.


    Paladin………….This is absolutely right brother. Paul's was talking about Jesus' life when he Lived on the earth not a Prehistorical existence at all. You have it right brother. I hope you explanations will help some here to understand it.

    peace and love to you and yours brother………………………gene

    #237446
     Ed J 
    Participant
    • Topics started 155
    • Total replies 27,848

    Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 26 2011,10:24)

    Quote (Paladin @ Feb. 25 2011,21:09)

    Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 25 2011,20:42)

    Quote (Paladin @ Feb. 25 2011,19:55)

    Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 25 2011,15:48)

    Quote (Paladin @ Feb. 25 2011,10:51)
    “ho logos” became flesh, “theos” did not.


    Hi Paladin,

                     YHVH(63) =  will be(63)

    For ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said,
    I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God,
    and they shall be my people. And will be a Father unto you, and ye
    shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. (2Cor.6:16,18)

    “Theos” (according to Paladin) will NOT become flesh?

    יד(14).  וַיֹּאמֶר אֱ־לֹהִים אֶל מֹשֶׁה אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה וַיֹּאמֶר כֹּה תֹאמַר לִבְנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל אֶהְיֶה שְׁלָחַנִי אֲלֵיכֶם:
    Exodus 3:14 And God said to Moses, “Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be),” and
    He said, “So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'

    Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH!
    יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
    Ed J (Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)

    For more on Theomatics…   (Click Here)
    .


    Hello Ed;

    Now, as to your post – God is spirit, and by that simple quality, can indwell without becoming, i.e., God can dwell in the saint without becoming the saint. God cannot become flesh. God created flesh, and cannot become his own creation. That would imply God creates himself. And that I do not believe.


    Hi Paladin,

            You say a lot: but (almost) NOTHING in response to the point I make?

                                             God Spirit=117

    Rev.21:2-3 And I John saw the HOLY CITY=117, New Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven,
    prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold,

    the tabernacle of God is with men (Is.60:14), and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people,
    AND GOD HIMSELF=117 shall be with them, and be “their God”=86 (YHVH=63).
                                                                                    (86=[אלהים] ĔL-ō-Hêêm=63)

                                 YHVH is GOD=117
    PSALM 117 is [The Bible's Center Chapter],
    the [smallest chapter] of the [LARGEST BOOK]!

    Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH! (Psalm 45:17)
    117=יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
    Ed J (AKJV Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org   …(Eccl.9:12-16)


    Hello Ed;

    No ammount of manipulation of numbers, will ever get me to realign my understanding upon which I place my faith in the true and living God.

    Thanks for listening.


    Hi Hi Paladin,

    What YHVH will be is in his people,
    God is going to tabernacle in his people.
    This is the point that seems to escape you!
    You repeating your post ADDS NOTHING here!

                            God's Signature
                 The Bible(63) → AKJV Bible(74)

    יהוה=26 (God's Name: YHVH pronounced YÄ-hä-vā)
    YHVH=63 (God's Name יהוה translated into English)
    Jesus=74 (God's Son's name in English is: “Joshua”)
    HolySpirit=151 (“FATHER: The Word”: in all believers)
    God The Father=117 (Representing “GOD”: יהוה האלהים)

    ………………The “Divine”=63 “Deity”=63 of “The Bible”=63 is “YHVH”=63 !
    ………………God's Name [יהוה] translates DIRECTLY into English as “YHVH”=63
    Hosea 6:3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth
    ………………is prepared as the morning; and he sha
    ll come unto us as the rain, as
    ………………[The Latter Rain“=151 and former rain“=117] unto the earth.

    ……..The Three Major Feasts (of Seven total) have much significance

    I addedCOLOR”=63 to help you grasp the “Ideas” God has put forth in His Word!
    THE “THREE” MAIN “FEASTS OF GOD” (out of seven total feasts) are as follows…

    …….74 x 2 =148
    1) The Passover”=148…………….“The Passover”: made possible “Pentecost”=117
    “Messiah: Jesus”=148…………….JESUS CHRIST”=151 was/is “the Testator”=151!

    2) Pentecost”=117…………………Started  the “God Spirit”=117(Holy Spirit), which      
    Former Rain=117……………….is “GOD THE FATHER”=117 reigning in believers!

    3) Feast of Booths”=151…………begins The “HOLY SPIRIT”=151(The LORD JEHOVAH=151)
    Tabernacles Feast=151 …………“Tabernacles Feast”=151; is the culmination of all “three”!
    The Latter Rain=151……………“HolySpirit” ruling: is “PROOF OF GOD”=117! (Rev.11:15)

    Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH! (Psalm 45:17)
    117=יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
    Ed J (AKJV Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org   …(Eccl.9:12-16)


    Hi Paladin,

          How can you say this…

    Quote
    the logos of God is personified, becomes flesh once again


         …and still disagree with my views?

    Eph.4:4-6 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord,
    one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who
    is above all, and through all, and in you all.

               “ONE SPIRIT: GOD”=151

                 “YHVH” ↔ “God”…………………………………..(Rom. 1:20)
          “Christ”(77) = “And Father”(77)…………………..(Coloss.2:9)
           “Body”(46) = “of all”(46)……………………………(Matt.10:29)
    “Witness”(109) = “in you all”(109)…………………….(Acts 17:29)

    Your brother
    in Christ, Jesus!
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #237475
     Paladin 
    Member
    • Topics started 17
    • Total replies 1,215

    Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 26 2011,14:29)

    Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 26 2011,10:24)

    Quote (Paladin @ Feb. 25 2011,21:09)

    Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 25 2011,20:42)

    Quote (Paladin @ Feb. 25 2011,19:55)

    Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 25 2011,15:48)

    Quote (Paladin @ Feb. 25 2011,10:51)
    “ho logos” became flesh, “theos” did not.


    Hi Paladin,

                     YHVH(63) =  will be(63)

    For ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said,
    I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God,
    and they shall be my people. And will be a Father unto you, and ye
    shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. (2Cor.6:16,18)

    “Theos” (according to Paladin) will NOT become flesh?

    יד(14).  וַיֹּאמֶר אֱ־לֹהִים אֶל מֹשֶׁה אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה וַיֹּאמֶר כֹּה תֹאמַר לִבְנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל אֶהְיֶה שְׁלָחַנִי אֲלֵיכֶם:
    Exodus 3:14 And God said to Moses, “Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be),” and
    He said, “So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'

    Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH!
    יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
    Ed J (Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)

    For more on Theomatics…   (Click Here)
    .


    Hello Ed;

    Now, as to your post – God is spirit, and by that simple quality, can indwell without becoming, i.e., God can dwell in the saint without becoming the saint. God cannot become flesh. God created flesh, and cannot become his own creation. That would imply God creates himself. And that I do not believe.


    Hi Paladin,

            You say a lot: but (almost) NOTHING in response to the point I make?

                                             God Spirit=117

    Rev.21:2-3 And I John saw the HOLY CITY=117, New Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven,
    prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold,

    the tabernacle of God is with men (Is.60:14), and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people,
    AND GOD HIMSELF=117 shall be with them, and be “their God”=86 (YHVH=63).
                                                                                    (86=[אלהים] ĔL-ō-Hêêm=63)

                                 YHVH is GOD=117
    PSALM 117 is [The Bible's Center Chapter],
    the [smallest chapter] of the [LARGEST BOOK]!

    Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH! (Psalm 45:17)
    117=יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
    Ed J (AKJV Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org   …(Eccl.9:12-16)


    Hello Ed;

    No ammount of manipulation of numbers, will ever get me to realign my understanding upon which I place my faith in the true and living God.

    Thanks for listening.


    Hi Hi Paladin,

    What YHVH will be is in his people,
    God is going to tabernacle in his people.
    This is the point that seems to escape you!
    You repeating your post ADDS NOTHING here!

                            God's Signature
                 The Bible(63) → AKJV Bible(74)

    יהוה=26 (God's Name: YHVH pronounced YÄ-hä-vā)
    YHVH=63 (God's Name יהוה translated into English)
    Jesus=74 (God's Son's name in English is: “Joshua”)
    HolySpirit=151 (“FATHER: The Word”: in all believers)
    God The Father=117 (Representing “GOD”: יהוה האלהים)

    ………………The “Divine”=63 “Deity”=63 of “The Bible”=63 is “YHVH”=63 !
    ………………God's Name [יהוה] translates DIRECTLY into Engl
    ish as “YHVH”=63

    Hosea 6:3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth
    ………………is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as
    ………………[The Latter Rain“=151 and former rain“=117] unto the earth.

    ……..The Three Major Feasts (of Seven total) have much significance

    I addedCOLOR”=63 to help you grasp the “Ideas” God has put forth in His Word!
    THE “THREE” MAIN “FEASTS OF GOD” (out of seven total feasts) are as follows…

    …….74 x 2 =148
    1) The Passover”=148…………….“The Passover”: made possible “Pentecost”=117
    “Messiah: Jesus”=148…………….JESUS CHRIST”=151 was/is “the Testator”=151!

    2) Pentecost”=117…………………Started  the “God Spirit”=117(Holy Spirit), which      
    Former Rain=117……………….is “GOD THE FATHER”=117 reigning in believers!

    3) Feast of Booths”=151…………begins The “HOLY SPIRIT”=151(The LORD JEHOVAH=151)
    Tabernacles Feast=151 …………“Tabernacles Feast”=151; is the culmination of all “three”!
    The Latter Rain=151……………“HolySpirit” ruling: is “PROOF OF GOD”=117! (Rev.11:15)

    Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH! (Psalm 45:17)
    117=יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
    Ed J (AKJV Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org   …(Eccl.9:12-16)


    Hi Paladin,

          How can you say this…

    Quote
    the logos of God is personified, becomes flesh once again


         …and still disagree with my views?

    Eph.4:4-6 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord,
    one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who
    is above all, and through all, and in you all.

               “ONE SPIRIT: GOD”=151

                 “YHVH” ↔ “God”…………………………………..(Rom. 1:20)
          “Christ”(77) = “And Father”(77)…………………..(Coloss.2:9)
           “Body”(46) = “of all”(46)……………………………(Matt.10:29)
    “Witness”(109) = “in you all”(109)…………………….(Acts 17:29)

    Your brother
    in Christ, Jesus!
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org


    Hello Ed;

    I am not sure we disagree in our views. I am most certain however, that we disagree in how we reach our views. I do not play with numbers to reach a conclusion about what I believe.

    As to the final conclusion…. Well…!!!

    #237477
     Ed J 
    Participant
    • Topics started 155
    • Total replies 27,848

    Hi Paladin,

    Let me tell you I've had my understanding of God for over 30 years
    before numbers such as in my Posts were introduced to me.

    Have you ever seen the Jim Cary movie called: 'Bruce Almighty'?
    Well there is a scene where he is crying out to God… “God to show me a sign”!
    He drives past one sign that says “Bridge Out” and then another that says “Caution”.
    He is completely oblivious to the “many signs”, continuing towards an incomplete Bridge.
    That is how numbers were for me, “no interest” “didn't care” and still I kept seeing the number 54,
    but didn't have a clue as to why? Then in 2001 I was introduced to the book,Theomatics II by Del Washburn.

    Or Are you familiar with the Prophet Amos?
    Amos 7:14 …I was no prophet, neither was I a prophet's son;
    but I was an herdman, and a gatherer of sycomore fruit: And the LORD took me
    as I followed the flock, and the LORD said unto me, Go, prophesy unto my people Israel.

    Well my story is very similar, God still uses people today and it's my calling to
    write a book that now documents the very PROOF of God's existence.
    I have No buffeting spirit, like the Apostle Paul had, having No ego.
    YHVH=63 has even wrote about me in his book: “The Bible”=63.

    This has “only” been done (as I see things) to be used as conclusive proof of “HIS” existence.
    Without it, I would be considered just another “crackpot”, in a long history of crackpots.
    As my friend Gary Robb once said: “Nobody can know everything about everything”.
    But God's kingdom is “real” and the extent of this proof is yet to be revealed to all.

    Sorry for so long a version, but I thought you should know.
    Numbers are corroborative evidence only; nothing more.
    I have learned based on numbers No “Theology”, though satan might tell you differently!

    Prov.18:13 He that answereth a matter before he heareth(understands) it, it is folly and shame unto him.
    Prov.25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honor of kings is to search out a matter.
    This powerful information is relatively unknown to “Mainstream Christianity” (as a whole), yet it is
    neither irrelevant nor inconsequential; and can be proven that God orchestrated it’s design!
    The Gematria I will use has a direct correlation to the AKJV Bible; cherry picked yes,
    but harder to debunk, because I did NOT orchestrate its use. This pattern has
    occurred over large time scales; diminishing the look of mans manipulation.

    God bless (Joshua 22:34 / Psalm 119:98-101)
    Ed J (Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #237478
     Ed J 
    Participant
    • Topics started 155
    • Total replies 27,848

    Quote (Paladin @ Feb. 26 2011,22:33)

    Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 26 2011,14:29)

    Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 26 2011,10:24)

    Quote (Paladin @ Feb. 25 2011,21:09)

    Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 25 2011,20:42)

    Quote (Paladin @ Feb. 25 2011,19:55)

    Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 25 2011,15:48)

    Quote (Paladin @ Feb. 25 2011,10:51)
    “ho logos” became flesh, “theos” did not.


    Hi Paladin,

                     YHVH(63) =  will be(63)

    For ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said,
    I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God,
    and they shall be my people. And will be a Father unto you, and ye
    shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. (2Cor.6:16,18)

    “Theos” (according to Paladin) will NOT become flesh?

    יד(14).  וַיֹּאמֶר אֱ־לֹהִים אֶל מֹשֶׁה אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה וַיֹּאמֶר כֹּה תֹאמַר לִבְנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל אֶהְיֶה שְׁלָחַנִי אֲלֵיכֶם:
    Exodus 3:14 And God said to Moses, “Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be),” and
    He said, “So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'

    Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH!
    יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
    Ed J (Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)

    For more on Theomatics…   (Click Here)
    .


    Hello Ed;

    Now, as to your post – God is spirit, and by that simple quality, can indwell without becoming, i.e., God can dwell in the saint without becoming the saint. God cannot become flesh. God created flesh, and cannot become his own creation. That would imply God creates himself. And that I do not believe.


    Hi Paladin,

            You say a lot: but (almost) NOTHING in response to the point I make?

                                             God Spirit=117

    Rev.21:2-3 And I John saw the HOLY CITY=117, New Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven,
    prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold,

    the tabernacle of God is with men (Is.60:14), and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people,
    AND GOD HIMSELF=117 shall be with them, and be “their God”=86 (YHVH=63).
                                                                                    (86=[אלהים] ĔL-ō-Hêêm=63)

                                 YHVH is GOD=117
    PSALM 117 is [The Bible's Center Chapter],
    the [smallest chapter] of the [LARGEST BOOK]!

    Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH! (Psalm 45:17)
    117=יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
    Ed J (AKJV Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org   …(Eccl.9:12-16)


    Hello Ed;

    No ammount of manipulation of numbers, will ever get me to realign my understanding upon which I place my faith in the true and living God.

    Thanks for listening.


    Hi Hi Paladin,

    What YHVH will be is in his people,
    God is going to tabernacle in his people.
    This is the point that seems to escape you!
    You repeating your post ADDS NOTHING here!

                            God's Signature
                 The Bible(63) → AKJV Bible(74)

    יהוה=26 (God's Name: YHVH pronounced YÄ-hä-vā)
    YHVH=63 (God's Name יהוה translated into English)
    Jesus=74 (God's Son's name in English is: “Joshua”)
    HolySpirit=151 (“FATHER: The Word”: in all believers)
    God The Father=117 (Representing “GOD”: יהוה האלהים)

    ………………The “Divine”=63 “Deity”=63 of “The Bible”=63 is “YHVH”=63 !
    ………………God's Name [יהוה] translates DIRECTLY into English as “YHVH”=63
    Hosea 6:3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth
    ………………is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as
    ………………[The Latter Rain“=151 and former rain“=117] unto the earth.

    ……..The Three Major Feasts (of Seven total) have much significance

    I addedCOLOR”=63 to help you grasp the “Ideas” God has put forth in His Word!
    THE “THREE” MAIN “FEASTS OF GOD” (out of seven total feasts) are as follows…

    …….74 x 2 =148
    1) The Passover”=148…………….“The Passover”: made possible “Pentecost”=117
    “Messiah: Jesus”=148…………….JESUS CHRIST”=151 was/is “the Testator”=151!

    2) Pentecost”=117…………………Started  the “God Spirit”=117(Holy Spirit), which      
    Former Rain=117……………….is “GOD THE FATHER”=117 reigning in believers!

    3) Feast of Booths”=151…………begins The “HOLY SPIRIT”=151(The LORD JEHOVAH=151)
    Tabernacles Feast=151 …………“Tabernacles Feast”=151; is the culmination of all “three”!
    The Latter Rain=151……………“HolySpirit” ruling: is “PROOF OF GOD”=117! (Rev.11:15)

    Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH! (Psalm 45:17)
    117=יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
    Ed J (AKJV Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org   …(Eccl.9:12-16)


    Hi Paladin,

          How can you say this…

    Quote
    the logos of God is personified, becomes flesh once again


         …and still disagree with my views?

    Eph.4:4-6 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord,
    one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who
    is above all, and through all, and in you all.

               “ONE SPIRIT: GOD”=151

                 “YHVH” ↔ “God”…………………………………..(Rom. 1:20)
          “Christ”(77) = “And Father”(77)…………………..(Coloss.2:9)
           “Body”(46) = “of all”(46)……………………………(Matt.10:29)
    “Witness”(109) = “in you all”(109)…………………….(Acts 17:29)

    Your brother
    in Christ, Jesus!
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org


    Hello Ed;

    I am not sure we disagree in our views. I am most certain however, that we disagree in how we reach our views. I do not play with numbers to reach a conclusion about what I believe.

    As to the final conclusion…. Well…!!!


    Hi Paladin,

    I have come to the conclusions I have by
    reading God's word and being lead by the “HolySpirit”.
    How have you come to the conclusions that you have come to?

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #237479
     GeneBalthrop 
    Participant
    • Topics started 42
    • Total replies 16,087

    EDJ…………I don't see how your view is different from Paladin's either brother. He has said it right the Logos is alive in all Flesh who has it in them, Just as Jesus had the same Logos (IN) him. The Logos is the Father who is GOD. When it says Christ in you, that is saying the CHRISTOS or Anointing Spirit of GOD is in you, just as it was in Jesus the anointed also. We are made one with Jesus through the Christos, which is God the FATHER'S Spirit sent into our hearts, through the Spirit Logos which is God's words, the same way Jesus was and is. IMO

    peace and love………………………………………gene

    #237481
     Paladin 
    Member
    • Topics started 17
    • Total replies 1,215

    Quote (Baker @ Feb. 26 2011,13:35)


    Quote
    Paladin! All I am going to say to you yet, you are interpreting those Scriptures not the way they are written, but the way YOU want them to say. That is adding to those Scriptures and to me, that is 100% wrong.

    Unless you are instructed in Greek, you are arguing from a translation, which is the weakest form of argument. All you can insist upon, is that the translation you are using is the correct, and the only correct one. If you are instructed in Greek, then you know what I have posted to you is true.

    Quote
    and all Christians are not in the form of God. that is so wrong. there will be the elect that will be in the form of God, like Jesus is, but not all or even not now.

    The difference between the form Elohim and the form anthrwpos, is anthrwpos is Elohim trapped temporarily in flesh.

    “What is man [anthrwpos] that thou are mindful of him?” Thou hast made him a little lower than Elohim” [Psa 8:4-5]

    Quote
    Phillipians not only say the form of God, and o yes, it is articulated, just the way it is written. I don;t understand why you think that.

    Because it is not articulated in the Greek, but the translators made it appear as though it is articulated to make a point that is not true.

    Quote
    But it also says that JESUS WAS MADE TO THE LIKENESS OF MAN. If He was made like that then He had to be something else first.

    He was “born to be king” but took on the likeness of the common man.
    He could have commanded angels, but took instezd, the form of a servant (He washed the disciples feet, like a servant, to give them an example to follow).

    Quote
    And what form is God? If Jesus was in the form of God, then He was like God.

    There you go adding that little “definite article” that is missing in the Greek. See my friend, why you need that article? It does make a difference.

    Quote
    We all know that God is Spirit. And also He had a glory with His Father before the World was. ( John 17:5)

    Right! And you had eternal life, in promise, before the world was. It is exactly the same with Jesus – “Who for the joy that was set before him, endured the cross, despising the shame…”

    Tell me something Irene – If God was in the presence of God (Son with Father) wouldn't that be the most joy? Perfection in the presence of perfection? How then is it “Joy” for God to leave God's presence to come to earth to be tortured and murdered, just to be returned to where you began? Would YOU do that? I wouldn't. And I do not think you and I are smarter than God.

    Quote
    And like I said before, We know he is Spirit now. Or do you disagree with that?

    You cannot see a spirit, can you? “And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.[Acts 1:9-11]

    What did the disciples see? “Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.” [Luke 24:39]

    Quote
    One other thing I did not mention about John 1;1 who is it that became flesh in verse 14? John 1:1-13 shows that there are two, not one. Then who is it, if not Jesus, who became flesh.

    It was “ho logos.” “ho logos” is a “what,” not a “who.”

    Quote
    you say a lot, but I don't believe a word you say, because you add to Scriptures and say the opposite of what is written. And give other Scriptures that have nothing to do with it. And say other things about our Christian lives, which I agree with, but has nothing to do with the preexistibg of Jesus.

    Dear sister, I would be badly disappointed if you changed your understanding based on one reading of what I wrote. I would expect you to not only read it, but compare it with what you understand, and compare them both with what the scripture actually says, then ask yourself, “which one leaves no contradictions in doctrinal comprehension?” “Which one leaves no contradiction with other scriptures?”

    Quote
    One more thing you say The Word of God is the logos in John 1:1, so the logos became flesh? That is why I gave you Rev. 19 to show you that it is not the logos, but Yeshua…is Rev. 19 logos too? Well I don't think so, no I know so….You are like Ed, He believes it is the Holy Spirit….. that is wrong too.

    Why do you chide me for adding to what is not there in scripture, when you use “Yeshua” which is not there in scripture? Is there some advantage to understanding “Yeshua” over “Jesus” that I am missing? See my friend, sometimes it helps to explain things not covered in the scriptures themselves. I understand that. You chide me for it.

    Quote
    I don't belong to any Church and did not believe in the preexisting of Jesus until God's Holy spirit taught us. Your theory about that is wrong too.

    It was God's Holy Spirit that teaches “Study to show thyself approved unto God, rightly dividing (or handling aright) the logos of God.” [II Tim 2:15]. If you take the logos of God out of chrono9logical order, how can you possibly comprehend it's message? You begin with the last book written, and begin to build a concept of “logos” which is contrary to what the Holy SPirit inspir
    ed the authors to write. Then you argue with me when I try to show you how it should be studied.

    When you say “I don't believe anything you have said” only then do I begin to applaude, for you should not believe it based on the fact I said it. But you certainly should search the scriptures, as we are told to do [John 5:39]

    “These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the logos [word] with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.” [Acts 17:11]

    Even Peter understood that some in the church were taking the scriptures in the wrong order, and making up doctrines based upon flase chronologies, to their own destruction; “..even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.” [II Pet 3:15-17]

    Quote
    funny you say that Christ is forming in you, yet before you said we are already in the Form of God. Which is it?

    1st of all, it was not I who said “Christ be formed in you,” It was Paul who said it. “My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you” [Gal 4:10] I am not making it up as I go along, I have given you scripture for every claim I make.

    2nd of all, Tell me Irene, what do you understand John 10:34-35 to be saying? “Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken…”

    Notice Irene, John does NOT say, “I said ye WILL BE Gods” but He said “I said ye ARE Gods.” Do you believe John? Then why don't you believe me when I quote John?

    Quote
    As far as the logos is concerned most of the Bible is. But not John 1;1, No the logos did not become flesh. That is your interpretation of the Word of God.

    John 1:14
    “Kai o`. logos sarx. egeneto”
    “and the logos flesh became”

    Quote
    As far as the trinity is concerned, I don't know were you got your information from.

    Philip Schaff, [1819-1893] Historian; and author of 8 volume “History of the Christian Church.”

    The observation about the 1000 year judgment from God is from my own study of the times, and scriptures.

    As for your presenting your Husband's conclusions, I have nothing to say, as I have not studied with him.

    Quote
    Peace Irene

    And grace and hope to you Irene.

    #237482
     Paladin 
    Member
    • Topics started 17
    • Total replies 1,215

    Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 26 2011,22:50)

    Quote (Paladin @ Feb. 26 2011,22:33)

    Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 26 2011,14:29)

    Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 26 2011,10:24)

    Quote (Paladin @ Feb. 25 2011,21:09)

    Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 25 2011,20:42)

    Quote (Paladin @ Feb. 25 2011,19:55)

    Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 25 2011,15:48)

    Quote (Paladin @ Feb. 25 2011,10:51)
    “ho logos” became flesh, “theos” did not.


    Hi Paladin,

                     YHVH(63) =  will be(63)

    For ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said,
    I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God,
    and they shall be my people. And will be a Father unto you, and ye
    shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. (2Cor.6:16,18)

    “Theos” (according to Paladin) will NOT become flesh?

    יד(14).  וַיֹּאמֶר אֱ־לֹהִים אֶל מֹשֶׁה אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה וַיֹּאמֶר כֹּה תֹאמַר לִבְנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל אֶהְיֶה שְׁלָחַנִי אֲלֵיכֶם:
    Exodus 3:14 And God said to Moses, “Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be),” and
    He said, “So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'

    Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH!
    יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
    Ed J (Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)

    For more on Theomatics…   (Click Here)
    .


    Hello Ed;

    Now, as to your post – God is spirit, and by that simple quality, can indwell without becoming, i.e., God can dwell in the saint without becoming the saint. God cannot become flesh. God created flesh, and cannot become his own creation. That would imply God creates himself. And that I do not believe.


    Hi Paladin,

            You say a lot: but (almost) NOTHING in response to the point I make?

                                             God Spirit=117

    Rev.21:2-3 And I John saw the HOLY CITY=117, New Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven,
    prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold,

    the tabernacle of God is with men (Is.60:14), and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people,
    AND GOD HIMSELF=117 shall be with them, and be “their God”=86 (YHVH=63).
                                                                                    (86=[אלהים] ĔL-ō-Hêêm=63)

                                 YHVH is GOD=117
    PSALM 117 is [The Bible's Center Chapter],
    the [smallest chapter] of the [LARGEST BOOK]!

    Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH! (Psalm 45:17)
    117=יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
    Ed J (AKJV Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org   …(Eccl.9:12-16)


    Hello Ed;

    No ammount of manipulation of numbers, will ever get me to realign my understanding upon which I place my faith in the true and living God.

    Thanks for listening.


    Hi Hi Paladin,

    What YHVH will be is in his people,
    God is going to tabernacle in his people.
    This is the point that seems to escape you!
    You repeating your post ADDS NOTHING here!

                            God's Signature
                 The Bible(63) → AKJV Bible(74)

    יהוה=26 (God's Name: YHVH pronounced YÄ-hä-vā)
    YHVH=63 (God's Name יהוה translated into English)
    Jesus=74 (God's Son's name in English is: “Joshua”)
    HolySpirit=151 (“FATHER: The Word”: in all believers)
    God The Father=117 (Representing “GOD”: י&#14
    92;וה האלהים)

    ………………The “Divine”=63 “Deity”=63 of “The Bible”=63 is “YHVH”=63 !
    ………………God's Name [יהוה] translates DIRECTLY into English as “YHVH”=63
    Hosea 6:3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth
    ………………is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as
    ………………[The Latter Rain“=151 and former rain“=117] unto the earth.

    ……..The Three Major Feasts (of Seven total) have much significance

    I addedCOLOR”=63 to help you grasp the “Ideas” God has put forth in His Word!
    THE “THREE” MAIN “FEASTS OF GOD” (out of seven total feasts) are as follows…

    …….74 x 2 =148
    1) The Passover”=148…………….“The Passover”: made possible “Pentecost”=117
    “Messiah: Jesus”=148…………….JESUS CHRIST”=151 was/is “the Testator”=151!

    2) Pentecost”=117…………………Started  the “God Spirit”=117(Holy Spirit), which      
    Former Rain=117……………….is “GOD THE FATHER”=117 reigning in believers!

    3) Feast of Booths”=151…………begins The “HOLY SPIRIT”=151(The LORD JEHOVAH=151)
    Tabernacles Feast=151 …………“Tabernacles Feast”=151; is the culmination of all “three”!
    The Latter Rain=151……………“HolySpirit” ruling: is “PROOF OF GOD”=117! (Rev.11:15)

    Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH! (Psalm 45:17)
    117=יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
    Ed J (AKJV Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org   …(Eccl.9:12-16)


    Hi Paladin,

          How can you say this…

    Quote
    the logos of God is personified, becomes flesh once again


         …and still disagree with my views?

    Eph.4:4-6 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord,
    one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who
    is above all, and through all, and in you all.

               “ONE SPIRIT: GOD”=151

                 “YHVH” ↔ “God”…………………………………..(Rom. 1:20)
          “Christ”(77) = “And Father”(77)…………………..(Coloss.2:9)
           “Body”(46) = “of all”(46)……………………………(Matt.10:29)
    “Witness”(109) = “in you all”(109)…………………….(Acts 17:29)

    Your brother
    in Christ, Jesus!
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org


    Hello Ed;

    I am not sure we disagree in our views. I am most certain however, that we disagree in how we reach our views. I do not play with numbers to reach a conclusion about what I believe.

    As to the final conclusion…. Well…!!!


    Hi Paladin,

    I have come to the conclusions I have by
    reading God's word and being lead by the “HolySpirit”.
    How have you come to the conclusions that you have come to?

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org


    I have said before, I do not think we are in disagreement as to the doctrines of scripture, as far as I have read your posts.

    I am in disagreement with your numerology system, and will not respond to anything that seems to use numerology for a source.

    I have to consider how the readers will consider any response to your posts, in which you use numerology in your material. I do not want it said that Paladin has agreed with that aspect of your presentations.

    Otherwise, I have no issue with you my friend.

    #237484
     Ed J 
    Participant
    • Topics started 155
    • Total replies 27,848

    Quote (Paladin @ Feb. 26 2011,23:50)

    Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 26 2011,22:50)

    Quote (Paladin @ Feb. 26 2011,22:33)

    Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 26 2011,14:29)

    Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 26 2011,10:24)

    Quote (Paladin @ Feb. 25 2011,21:09)

    Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 25 2011,20:42)

    Quote (Paladin @ Feb. 25 2011,19:55)

    Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 25 2011,15:48)

    Quote (Paladin @ Feb. 25 2011,10:51)
    “ho logos” became flesh, “theos” did not.


    Hi Paladin,

                     YHVH(63) =  will be(63)

    For ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said,
    I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God,
    and they shall be my people. And will be a Father unto you, and ye
    shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. (2Cor.6:16,18)

    “Theos” (according to Paladin) will NOT become flesh?

    יד(14).  וַיֹּאמֶר אֱ־לֹהִים אֶל מֹשֶׁה אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה וַיֹּאמֶר כֹּה תֹאמַר לִבְנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל אֶהְיֶה שְׁלָחַנִי אֲלֵיכֶם:
    Exodus 3:14 And God said to Moses, “Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be),” and
    He said, “So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'

    Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH!
    יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
    Ed J (Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)

    For more on Theomatics…   (Click Here)
    .


    Hello Ed;

    Now, as to your post – God is spirit, and by that simple quality, can indwell without becoming, i.e., God can dwell in the saint without becoming the saint. God cannot become flesh. God created flesh, and cannot become his own creation. That would imply God creates himself. And that I do not believe.


    Hi Paladin,

            You say a lot: but (almost) NOTHING in response to the point I make?

                                             God Spirit=117

    Rev.21:2-3 And I John saw the HOLY CITY=117, New Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven,
    prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold,

    the tabernacle of God is with men (Is.60:14), and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people,
    AND GOD HIMSELF=117 shall be with them, and be “their God”=86 (YHVH=63).
                                                                                    (86=[אלהים] ĔL-ō-Hêêm=63)

                                 YHVH is GOD=117
    PSALM 117 is [The Bible's Center Chapter],
    the [smallest chapter] of the [LARGEST BOOK]!

    Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH! (Psalm 45:17)
    117=יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
    Ed J (AKJV Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org   …(Eccl.9:12-16)


    Hello Ed;

    No ammount of manipulation of numbers, will ever get me to realign my understanding upon which I place my faith in the true and living God.

    Thanks for listening.


    Hi Hi Paladin,

    What YHVH will be is in his people,
    God is going to tabernacle in his people.
    This is the point that seems to escape you!
    You repeating your post ADDS NOTHING here!

                            God's Signature
                 The Bible(63) → AKJV Bible(74)

    יהוה=26 (God's Name: YHVH pronounced YÄ-hä-vā)
    YHVH=63 (God's Name יהוה translated into English)
    Jesus=74 (God's Son's name in
    English is: “Joshua”)
    HolySpirit=151 (“FATHER: The Word”: in all believers)
    God The Father=117 (Representing “GOD”: יהוה האלהים)

    ………………The “Divine”=63 “Deity”=63 of “The Bible”=63 is “YHVH”=63 !
    ………………God's Name [יהוה] translates DIRECTLY into English as “YHVH”=63
    Hosea 6:3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth
    ………………is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as
    ………………[The Latter Rain“=151 and former rain“=117] unto the earth.

    ……..The Three Major Feasts (of Seven total) have much significance

    I addedCOLOR”=63 to help you grasp the “Ideas” God has put forth in His Word!
    THE “THREE” MAIN “FEASTS OF GOD” (out of seven total feasts) are as follows…

    …….74 x 2 =148
    1) The Passover”=148…………….“The Passover”: made possible “Pentecost”=117
    “Messiah: Jesus”=148…………….JESUS CHRIST”=151 was/is “the Testator”=151!

    2) Pentecost”=117…………………Started  the “God Spirit”=117(Holy Spirit), which      
    Former Rain=117……………….is “GOD THE FATHER”=117 reigning in believers!

    3) Feast of Booths”=151…………begins The “HOLY SPIRIT”=151(The LORD JEHOVAH=151)
    Tabernacles Feast=151 …………“Tabernacles Feast”=151; is the culmination of all “three”!
    The Latter Rain=151……………“HolySpirit” ruling: is “PROOF OF GOD”=117! (Rev.11:15)

    Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH! (Psalm 45:17)
    117=יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
    Ed J (AKJV Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org   …(Eccl.9:12-16)


    Hi Paladin,

          How can you say this…

    Quote
    the logos of God is personified, becomes flesh once again


         …and still disagree with my views?

    Eph.4:4-6 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord,
    one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who
    is above all, and through all, and in you all.

               “ONE SPIRIT: GOD”=151

                 “YHVH” ↔ “God”…………………………………..(Rom. 1:20)
          “Christ”(77) = “And Father”(77)…………………..(Coloss.2:9)
           “Body”(46) = “of all”(46)……………………………(Matt.10:29)
    “Witness”(109) = “in you all”(109)…………………….(Acts 17:29)

    Your brother
    in Christ, Jesus!
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org


    Hello Ed;

    I am not sure we disagree in our views. I am most certain however, that we disagree in how we reach our views. I do not play with numbers to reach a conclusion about what I believe.

    As to the final conclusion…. Well…!!!


    Hi Paladin,

    I have come to the conclusions I have by
    reading God's word and being lead by the “HolySpirit”.
    How have you come to the conclusions that you have come to?

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org


    I have said before, I do not think we are in disagreement as to the doctrines of scripture, as far as I have read your posts.

    I am in disagreement with your numerology system, and will not respond to anything that seems to use numerology for a source.

    I have to consider how the readers will consider any response to your posts, in which you use numerology in your material. I do not want it said that Paladin has agreed with that aspect of your presentations.

    Otherwise, I have no issue with you my friend.


    Great!

    #237485
     GeneBalthrop 
    Participant
    • Topics started 42
    • Total replies 16,087

    Paladin……….Well put i feel the same way about brother EDJ. Much of what you are saying here i have for years tried to explain, but the false teaching learned here by many have hindered there growth that is for sure. I am not as articulated in scripture as you are though and you add more soundness to them. I sure hope T8 will read some of this Brother, he has good logic and i believe he could comprehend what you are saying. IMO

    peace and love to you and yours…………………………………gene

    #237505
     Paladin 
    Member
    • Topics started 17
    • Total replies 1,215

    Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 26 2011,22:44)
    Hi Paladin,

    Let me tell you I've had my understanding of God for over 30 years
    before numbers such as in my Posts were introduced to me.

    Have you ever seen the Jim Cary movie called: 'Bruce Almighty'?
    Well there is a scene where he is crying out to God… “God to show me a sign”!
    He drives past one sign that says “Bridge Out” and then another that says “Caution”.
    He is completely oblivious to the “many signs”, continuing towards an incomplete Bridge.
    That is how numbers were for me, “no interest” “didn't care” and still I kept seeing the number 54,
    but didn't have a clue as to why? Then in 2001 I was introduced to the book,Theomatics II by Del Washburn.

    Or Are you familiar with the Prophet Amos?
    Amos 7:14 …I was no prophet, neither was I a prophet's son;
    but I was an herdman, and a gatherer of sycomore fruit: And the LORD took me
    as I followed the flock, and the LORD said unto me, Go, prophesy unto my people Israel.

    Well my story is very similar, God still uses people today and it's my calling to
    write a book that now documents the very PROOF of God's existence.
    I have No buffeting spirit, like the Apostle Paul had, having No ego.
    YHVH=63 has even wrote about me in his book: “The Bible”=63.

    This has “only” been done (as I see things) to be used as conclusive proof of “HIS” existence.
    Without it, I would be considered just another “crackpot”, in a long history of crackpots.
    As my friend Gary Robb once said: “Nobody can know everything about everything”.
    But God's kingdom is “real” and the extent of this proof is yet to be revealed to all.

    Sorry for so long a version, but I thought you should know.
    Numbers are corroborative evidence only; nothing more.
    I have learned based on numbers No “Theology”, though satan might tell you differently!

    Prov.18:13 He that answereth a matter before he heareth(understands) it, it is folly and shame unto him.
    Prov.25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honor of kings is to search out a matter.
    This powerful information is relatively unknown to “Mainstream Christianity” (as a whole), yet it is
    neither irrelevant nor inconsequential; and can be proven that God orchestrated it’s design!
    The Gematria I will use has a direct correlation to the AKJV Bible; cherry picked yes,
    but harder to debunk, because I did NOT orchestrate its use. This pattern has
    occurred over large time scales; diminishing the look of mans manipulation.

    God bless (Joshua 22:34 / Psalm 119:98-101)
    Ed J (Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org


    You see my friend, that is what I was trying to tell you. You say that the Gematria you use will be the American King James Bible, but why would God publish his truth for all of mankind, if it is only understood from a Gematria developed and marketed in 1999?

    It doesn't work for me. And no, Satan did not reveal it to me.
    Google did.

    #237507
     Ed J 
    Participant
    • Topics started 155
    • Total replies 27,848

    Quote (Paladin @ Feb. 27 2011,05:00)

    Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 26 2011,22:44)
    Hi Paladin,

    Let me tell you I've had my understanding of God for over 30 years
    before numbers such as in my Posts were introduced to me.

    Have you ever seen the Jim Cary movie called: 'Bruce Almighty'?
    Well there is a scene where he is crying out to God… “God to show me a sign”!
    He drives past one sign that says “Bridge Out” and then another that says “Caution”.
    He is completely oblivious to the “many signs”, continuing towards an incomplete Bridge.
    That is how numbers were for me, “no interest” “didn't care” and still I kept seeing the number 54,
    but didn't have a clue as to why? Then in 2001 I was introduced to the book,Theomatics II by Del Washburn.

    Or Are you familiar with the Prophet Amos?
    Amos 7:14 …I was no prophet, neither was I a prophet's son;
    but I was an herdman, and a gatherer of sycomore fruit: And the LORD took me
    as I followed the flock, and the LORD said unto me, Go, prophesy unto my people Israel.

    Well my story is very similar, God still uses people today and it's my calling to
    write a book that now documents the very PROOF of God's existence.
    I have No buffeting spirit, like the Apostle Paul had, having No ego.
    YHVH=63 has even wrote about me in his book: “The Bible”=63.

    This has “only” been done (as I see things) to be used as conclusive proof of “HIS” existence.
    Without it, I would be considered just another “crackpot”, in a long history of crackpots.
    As my friend Gary Robb once said: “Nobody can know everything about everything”.
    But God's kingdom is “real” and the extent of this proof is yet to be revealed to all.

    Sorry for so long a version, but I thought you should know.
    Numbers are corroborative evidence only; nothing more.
    I have learned based on numbers No “Theology”, though satan might tell you differently!

    Prov.18:13 He that answereth a matter before he heareth(understands) it, it is folly and shame unto him.
    Prov.25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honor of kings is to search out a matter.
    This powerful information is relatively unknown to “Mainstream Christianity” (as a whole), yet it is
    neither irrelevant nor inconsequential; and can be proven that God orchestrated it’s design!
    The Gematria I will use has a direct correlation to the AKJV Bible; cherry picked yes,
    but harder to debunk, because I did NOT orchestrate its use. This pattern has
    occurred over large time scales; diminishing the look of mans manipulation.

    God bless (Joshua 22:34 / Psalm 119:98-101)
    Ed J (Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org


    You see my friend, that is what I was trying to tell you. You say that the Gematria you use will be the American King James Bible, but why would God publish his truth for all of mankind, if it is only understood from a Gematria developed and marketed in 1999?

    It doesn't work for me. And no, Satan did not reveal it to me.
    Google did.


    Hi Paladin,

                            God's Signature
                 The Bible(63) → AKJV Bible(74)

    יהוה=26 (God's Name: YHVH pronounced YÄ-hä-vā)
    YHVH=63 (God's Name יהוה translated into English)
    Jesus=74 (God's Son's name in English is: “Joshua”)
    HolySpirit=151 (“FATHER: The Word”: in all believers)
    God The Father=117 (Representing “GOD”: יהוה האלהים)

    The “Gematria”(74) I refer to, was encoded into the “AKJV Bible”(74); which was finished in 1611, NOT 1999!
    “YHVH”(63) orchestrated this (above) pattern into “The Bible”(63); you need to pay attention to what is said.

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #237559
     Paladin 
    Member
    • Topics started 17
    • Total replies 1,215

    Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 27 2011,05:14)


    Quote
    Numbers are corroborative evidence only; nothing more.

    That is precisely the argument made by Jehovah's Witnesses who use their own number system to reach conclusions not otherwise understood in scripture.

    Look, Brother, I have not argued that your scriptural presentation is wrong, I have only said that your numerology system does not convince me.

    The Jehovah's Witnesses (JWs) insist that the persecution of the Jews referenced in Genesis 15:13 began when Ishmael teased little brother Isaac; and they figure the 430 years of Gal 3:17 is from when Ishmael teased Isaac, till Moses gave the Jews the law on Sinai.

    The problem with that is, Exo 12:40 tells us the children of Israel sojourned in egypt 430 years; and Paul tells us in Gal 3:17 that the law followed the covenant by 430 years.

    The problem with the JW's figures is simple; they count Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as children of Israel. Abraham was never a child of Israel, he was Israel's grandfather; Isaac was never a child of Israel, he was Israel's Father; and Israel was never a child of Israel. That would make Israel his own father, which is impossible.

    Their “numbeirng system” is off by at least 215 years, assuming there is anything to it to begin with, which I do not assume.

    Quote
    Prov.18:13 He that answereth a matter before he heareth(understands) it, it is folly and shame unto him.

    My response has always followed your posts using numerology system for evidence.

    Quote
    Prov.25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honor of kings is to search out a matter.
    This powerful information is relatively unknown to “Mainstream Christianity” (as a whole),

    It is not unknown to me.

    Quote
    yet it isneither irrelevant nor inconsequential; and can be proven that God orchestrated it’s design!

    Since you have asserted a thing, it is now in the perview of
    public domain, and I can respond without “answering a matter before I have heard it.”

    You cannot prove God orchestrated the numerology system published in 1999. Your later assertion that your reference was to the American King James Bible of 1611 is another error; when King James authorized the research culminating in the production of the 1611 translation, America was still 219 years in the future. There was no “American King James Version” until 1999. There was only copies of the 1611 version used in America, a far different thing.

    Quote
    The Gematria I will use has a direct correlation to the AKJV Bible; cherry picked yes, but harder to debunk, because I did NOT orchestrate its use. This pattern has occurred over large time scales; diminishing the look of mans manipulation.

    I guess that would depend upon whether man manipulated it, diminished look or not. You yourself told us you got it from a book authored by a man in the present. If this is true, then God did not speak to us last throguh his son Jesus, but rather he is still speaking, as you said the book is only up to chapter 21 and is still being written.

    I do not accept that premise.

    God bless (Joshua 22:34 / Psalm 119:98-101)
    Ed J (Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org[/quote]
    You see my friend, that is what I was trying to tell you. You say that the Gematria you use will be the American King James Bible, but why would God publish his truth for all of mankind, if it is only understood from a Gematria developed and marketed in 1999?

    It doesn't work for me. And no, Satan did not reveal it to me.
    Google did.[/quote]
    Hi Paladin,

    God's Signature
    The Bible(63) → AKJV Bible(74)

    יהוה=26 (God's Name: YHVH pronounced YÄ-hä-vā)
    YHVH=63 (God's Name יהוה translated into English)
    Jesus=74 (God's Son's name in English is: “Joshua”)
    HolySpirit=151 (“FATHER: The Word”: in all believers)
    God The Father=117 (Representing “GOD”: יהוה האלהים)

    The “Gematria”(74) I refer to, was encoded into the “AKJV Bible”(74); which was finished in 1611, NOT 1999!
    “YHVH”(63) orchestrated this (above) pattern into “The Bible”(63); you need to pay attention to what is said.

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #237561
     Ed J 
    Participant
    • Topics started 155
    • Total replies 27,848

    Quote
    You yourself told us you got it from a book authored by a man in the present.


    Hi Paladin,

    No; he convinced me there was something to “Theomatics”.
    His book deals only with the Greek and Hebrew scriptures.

    My research has discovered a Gematria pattern in the “AKJV Bible”.
    The “AKJV Bible” stands for Authorized King James Version;
    first published in 1611; and revised several times since.

    This pattern also extends back into the Greek, with links directly to both Hebrew and Greek.
    Whether you acknowledge Gematria or not, it doesn't change the veracity of it's truth.
    Just like an “atheist” not believing in God, does not nullify YHVH's existence.

    You believe there's nothing to it, because you have not examined the evidence.
    Just like 'athiests' never examined the evidence of God's existence.
    They just 'ASSUME' that nobody can know more than they do!
    Seems you have something in common with atheists; aye?

                                 YHVH is GOD=117
    PSALM 117 is [The Bible's Center Chapter],
    the [smallest chapter] of the [LARGEST BOOK]!

    Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH! (Psalm 45:17)
    117=יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
    Ed J (AKJV Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org   …(Eccl.9:12-16)

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 3,212 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

© 1999 - 2018 Heaven Net

or

Log in with your credentials

or    

Forgot your details?

or

Create Account