Enoch

This topic contains 259 replies, has 46 voices, and was last updated by  t8 4 weeks ago.

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  • #4206
     ringo111 
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    Quote

    ringo111,

    How do you explain the following biblical verses.

    Jude 14-15
    “In the seventh (generation) from Adam Enoch also prophesied these things, saying: 'Behold, the Lord came with his holy myriads, to execute judgment on all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in such an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners spoke against him'.”

    How did Jude know that Enoch prophecied this, if it is not in any other biblical book, but is in the Book of Enoch?

    Simple, someone could have rewritten the book of Enoch, taking true parts and mixing it with many lies. Making sure that the included the writings of bible writers.

    Thats why i said , many of it seems true about GoD the Justice on ungodly people, But the rest seems to have been made up.

    Quote

    You then say that “Someone pointed out that angels, Do Not Marry!! Nor are given in marrage”.

    But if Jesus is liking us to Angels who do not marry, then surely he is referring to the Elect Angels as his reference was to his elect on earth. I am sure he wasn't likening his elect to the fallen angels. If Angels did marry and have offspring, then they abandoned their former positions and did things that they were not suppose to. Of course we know that Fallen Angels rebelled against God in many ways and taking wives from men appears to be one of their sins.

    Matthew 22
    30At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

    Luke 20
    34Jesus replied, “The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35But those who are considered worthy of taking part in that age and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, 36and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God's children, since they are children of the resurrection.

    Hmm, Yes, I see. Matt 22 suggests that It may only be angels in heaven that are given in marriage.

    Luke 20 states that angels in general will not be maried or given in marriage.

    I put to you this! GoD made man First, But did he make the anatomy for reproduction first before he made Eve. GoD made Man and Woman to gain in number by repoduction. But is not the only way people are made, John the baptist said, god could raise children out of the rocks for abraham(like he did Adam) Seen as GoD does not make angels in heaven to repoduce in this fashon, It would seem that GoD did not give angels the parts to reproduce.
    But maybe angels were another race b4 they were angels, and did reproduce, Or maybe GoD made them with that part but not to use it.
    This just opens up alot of questions, not many answers. Apart from,
    *We will not be married or given in marriage.
    *Angels in heaven are not permitted to either (not knowing if they even have the parts or not)
    *Angels dont die.

    Ok, an interesting thing about what the writter of jude writes, Im not sure if its in what we are calling “the book of enoch” Angels that SiN, are held in Everlasting chains Untill Judgment day. That means that Satan Cannot be an angel, neither the demons, ^_^

    And could make the story in “enoch” more plausable that angels of heaven had sex and offspring with human women. The reason why satan isnt doing it Because he cant- and wouldnt be in the position he is if he was once an angels, because he'd be bound with everlasting chains.

    But then, thats not the end of that line of thinking, Because then someone could say, Satan may be bound to the earth and heaven.

    Arg, too many posibilities! I dont think we're given enough information about all these things! Were just given enough info to live a godly life in Jesus example.

    Quote

    Genesis 6:1-8
    1 When men began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them,
    2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose.
    3 Then the LORD said, “My Spirit will not contend with man forever, for he is mortal; his days will be a hundred and twenty years.”
    4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days-and also afterward-when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.
    5 The LORD saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time.
    6 The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain.
    7 So the LORD said, “I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth-men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air-for I am grieved that I have made them.”
    8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD.

    So how do you explain this verse?

    Sons of GoD, could be men, or other beings, It may be suggesting other beings, But then GoDs punishment, and reason as to why he will destroy the inhabitance of the earth is because of Men. So yes as far as I can see, It is plausable using this scripture, But indecisive.

    Jesus said GoD called People 'Sons Of GoD'

    Michael Had a good point, It seems, a scholarly view on this particular wording 'SonS of GoD' would be good to account for.

    Quote

    MichaelTheeArchAngel
    The words (messenger-s of God) is translated, angel. People here on earth are also called sons of God. When viewing a parable dont be to literal.

    I dont understand, why say 'dont be to literal' ?? You are saying literally , 'son of GoD' means man. Jesus also says that men are Sons Of GoD.

    Conclusion- The evidence leans more toward 'Sons Of GoD' is talking about men. And very slim evidence to suggest, 'sons of God' were angels.

    #4207
     t8 
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    Angels often appear as men when they come to this world.

    Hebrews 13:2
    Do not forget to entertain strangers, for by so doing some people have entertained angels without knowing it.

    Perhaps they have the ability to take on a human body, in similar fashion that men wear a space suits in space. Perhaps a human body is needed in order to operate as a physical being in this realm. Otherwise you would just walk through walls and emanate light if you were not subject to physical laws such as electromagnetism.

    Also descriptions of angels in heaven describe creatures of heavenly splendour and on the earth they are often described like men. So there is a difference in description related to what realm they are operating in.

    Luke 24:4
    While they were perplexed about this, behold, two men suddenly stood near them in dazzling clothing;

    John 20:12
    and she saw two angels in white sitting, one at the head and one at the feet, where the body of Jesus had been lying.

    Same with Jesus who had an ordinary human body and a spirtual body when he rose from the dead, or a human body with a spirtual dimension that wasn't in subjection to physical law. On earth he appears like any other man, but in Heaven he is emanating God's glory.

    So perhaps these fallen angels were able to take on human form. I am not sure either way.

    I think the real question here is “Who are the Nephilim”?

    Genesis 6:4  
    The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward,

    #4208
     ringo111 
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    Well, I know ppl that have seen winged angels. So yeah- I think they either appear as men to our eyes, but theyre true form has wings- Or that some Have wings & Some dont.

    ^_^

    But as long as we egknoledge GoD has angels, it doesnt matter if we think they have wings or not. ^^;;

    I guess you dont even need to egknowledge angels exist. Allthough that would be strange to believe that.

    #4209
     Anonymous
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    The prophets in the bible saw angels with wings only in dreams or visions, and used the word wings parabolically. If a person sees a person with wings than their having a dreamvision. People do not literally have wings. God said let us make man in our image.

    #4210
     ringo111 
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    Why on earth would someone see somthing that isnt there???
    Why would god make ppl see wings on angels if they dont exist on angels – vision or no vision they are still there.

    In tha bible If something is ment to be a metaphore then it says that it is a metaphore- at least somewhere in the book- So those are the two posibilities-

    If you say that wings are just nothing, even if you see them- Thats just plain ignorant. But its not only people in visions- People in real life- real time- not in vision state.

    As for people with wings??? Where does it ever say ppl have wings???

    I still conclude that it is not necissary to believe this- Angels are sent quikly no-matter how the transport. Or appearance.

    #4211
     MichaelTheeArchAngel 
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    Quote (ringo111 @ May 18 2004,01:29)
    Why on earth would someone see somthing that isnt there???
    Why would god make ppl see wings on angels if they dont exist on angels – vision or no vision they are still there.

    In tha bible If something is ment to be a metaphore then it says that it is a metaphore- at least somewhere in the book- So those are the two posibilities-

    If you say that wings are just nothing, even if you see them- Thats just plain ignorant. But its not only people in visions- People in real life- real time- not in vision state.

    As for people with wings??? Where does it ever say ppl have wings???

    I still conclude that it is not necissary to believe this- Angels are sent quikly no-matter how the transport. Or appearance.


    Your being to literal, perhaps you should look up the word (PARABLE). Many christians imagen vain things about what scripture says. A parable is like solving a riddle it requires a spirit of discernment. In dreams and parables and visions both the literal and parabolic apply, and a person needs to be able to discern the difference.

    #4212
     Anonymous
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    it borrows too much from much earlier writings to be considered as much more than an elegant fraud. It deals with magic which was prohibited among the Jews and also by giving the names of the demons, ascribes a form of honor to them not found in sacred scripture – For example- the bible does not dignify or personify Satan by giving us his name which would have been an honorable one before his rebellion in the garden of eden

    #4213
     NickHassan 
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    Interesting. Excuse my ignorance but where does Lucifer come from and is Satan just a descriptive name?

    #4214
     Dinah 
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    I witnessed a President assassinated one day,,,and a whole government stood silent…The Chief Justice of the United States Supreme Court wrote and toled the Nation a LIE…..Oswald acting alone is a LIE…..seven yrs ago I started a quest to find out just what it was that could silence a whole government….A president was murdered, a lie was told, the whole world knows it!s a lie, and yet the whole world accepts it…..that can only be achieved by a Presence, or an Influence, beyond human recognition…..SATAN…..the stench of Masonry is so strong in Washington, that it hardly needs cleaning up after it!self……and there came a day when the Sons of GOD came before the LORD….and Satan was among them, and when asked where he had been….he said ..to and fro the earth, walking up and down in it…checking out his place of recidency……He is called many names…….and one very important one is……THE PRINCE OF THE POWERS OF THE AIR…..in other words he not only can walk among you but ,,but reign over the clouds above you……The one thing Washington does NOT DO…..is acknowledge U F O!s…..You never here a word fom Washington of those amazing craft that defy!s the laws of physics…. for a reason,,,,Washington knows just who they are..

    I have just had the delightfull opportunity to read The Book of Enoch…..and was absolutely floored when I realized he was relating his experience in a U F O. I am convinced that this book not only was left out because of various reasons,,but was left out on purpose for two reasons……

    The Sons of GOD [ who the Masons call themselves] mating with Humans,,,,and had this book been included in the Bible
    Christianity would be aware of who they are ” in the powers of the air” Satan took over the Church that Christ built before they even took JESUS of the cross……

    Do any of you realize just what a blow this book is to Masonry,
    THE BOOK OF ENOCH MAKES MASONRY NO LONGER SECRET,,
    AND SATAN COULDN!T HAVE WORKED HIS CHARM TO THE ABOMINATION OF THE EARTH…

    #4215
     MrBob 
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    Where does it say anything about a UFO? ???

    Just wondering.

    #4216
     Anonymous
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    Mr. Bob……….He doesn!t say………U F O ……..start with ch 14-8              ch17-1    they raised me up into a certain place, where there was an appearance of a burning fire, and when they pleased they assumed the likeness of men
    ch51-1  after that period in the place where I had seen every secret thing, I was snatched up in a whirlwind, and carried off westwards,  2  there my eyes beheld the secrets of heaven,————-etc  3    and I inquired of the angel who went with me , saying what are these things, which in secret I behold…..4  He said..all things which thou beholdest shall be for the dominion of the Messiah, that He may command, and be powerfull upon the earth[millenium]
    ch41-2  there too, my eyes beheld the secrets of lightning and the thunder,and the secrets if the winds, how they are disturbed as they blow over the earth, the secrets of the winds, of the dew, and of the clouds…there I perceived the place from which they issued forth, and became saturated with the dust of the earth……..he just touched  down ………He!s in a UFO  the angels are aliens ……
    the Fallen Angels took the likeness of man and took for themselves wives,  and slept with them and begat giants and polluted the dna of  GODS  CREATION………and HE bound them in chains for 70 generations,,,,,or untill the SON OF MAN SETS FOOT ON THE EARTH…….And then they will be loosed for a little while [ as John says] to start the abomination of the earth……..this book was purposely left out of the Cannon because of Satan!s influence,,,,,IT EXPOSES WHO THEY ARE…….THE PRINCE OF THE POWERS OF THE AIR…….
    THEY BEEN LOOSED EVER SINCE THE BIRTH OF CHRIST AND HAVE BEEN ON THIS PLANET PLOTTING AND CONSPIRING AGAINST MANKIND EVER SINCE……MASONRY AND JUDAISM[KABALA] IS THEIR COMMUNICATION……AND TAKE A LOOK AT THE CROP CIRCLES,,,,,,,,THEM TWO DUMMIES IN ENGLAND WITH THEIR WOODEN BOARDS STRAPPED ON THEIR FEET ,,,,,,
    COULDN!T FOOL A PLAYGROUND…… regards  Duane

    #4217
     NickHassan 
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    Interesting book. To me it highlighted the negative influence of the Nephilim of Gen 6. They seemed to bring to earth occult powers and practices and lust and violence.Certainly it was after that time that men could only expect to live 70-80 years instead of several hundreds as the influence of increased sin hastened death.

    I was also fascinated with the verses about the sheep, the wolves and the Shepherd-so similar to so many verses in the NT and OT.Also the mansions and paradise,the tree of knowledge of good and evil and the expansions of so many hints in the NT.

    I am sure that if looked at in the light of the Word this book may be very helpful and if it is quoted in Jude that gives it a seal of approval from God in my book.

    #4218
     Anonymous
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    oh hey,

    i'm speaking from complete ignorance here – not actually having read the book of enoch – but i'm not sure i understand why jude quoting it, constitutes god's approval?

    i'm sure this is a very heretical comment, but while paul says all scripture is god-breathed, and peter says that paul writes with the wisdom god has given him, i don't recall any passage which says what constitutes and does not constitute scripture… and as we've seen with the “trinity” debate, church tradition is not a valid explanation…

    anyway, perhaps this is a post for another thread…

    cheers,

    nate.

    #4219
     ringo111 
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    Nick H

    Quote
    I am sure that if looked at in the light of the Word this book may be very helpful and if it is quoted in Jude that gives it a seal of approval from God in my book.

    Dont be too hasty there, It seems to me that someone took an existing scripture, and forged what we call 'the book of enoch' current version. Using this quote because it was kept in the bundlings of books people liked to keep as christian writings?

    and… wasnt this book written much after the new testiment??

    Im sure the original one that jude quoted was legit, and most probably only that line, or a series of lines were taken from legitiment writings. The rest being added by someone. For no-where else in testing, does the bible agree at all with many of the consepts in this 'book of enoch'

    #4220
     Anonymous
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    Trembling to its fall
    Putting and end to it all
    By storm, by force
    With might… without remorse
    We are here to conquer this world
    Like cancer… our hate consumes the light of elysium
    Unstoppable force of demonic supremacy
    All destroying…all devouring
    Heaven now ravaged… scarred and empty
    Strike the death knell of the pandemonium
    Imbrue one's hands in the blood of christ
    Washing away all filth of righteousness
    The dimming of the light
    Engulfing the trinity
    He raped…the culture of mankind
    He raped…the pride of the ancient ways
    He raped…all thought of freewill
    I who will watch you fall into obscurity
    Washing away all filth of righteousness
    The dimming of the light
    Engulfing the ####### trinity
    I spit upon your deity
    Supposed creator of all things
    Idol of irreverence you worship above
    Show your true face… the image of prevarication
    Unhallowed be our twilight
    Thy grace untriumphant
    Mourn the crowning of unconquerable profanation
    Hell's grim tyrant…the eldest of night and chaos
    Breathe once again…far from the shadow of god
    This day of reckoning will be unavenged
    Glory of wrathful inignation
    I deny god and all religion
    Turn up the whites of their eyes… Dechristianize
    Our poisonous truths
    Divinity…drowning in impurity
    Unconquerble…unstoppable
    Sanguilent in your agony
    Like cancer… our hate consumes the light of elysium
    Unstoppable force of demonic supremacy
    All destroying…all devouring
    Heaven now ravaged… scarred and empty
    Strike the death knell of the pandemonium
    Imbrue one's hands in the blood of christ
    Washing away all filth of righteousness
    The dimming of the light
    Engulfing the trinity
    He raped…the culture of mankind
    He raped…the pride of the ancient ways
    He raped…all thought of freewill
    I who will watch you fall into obscurity
    Washing away all filth of righteousness
    The dimming of the light
    Engulfing the ####### trinity
    Dechristianize…Dechristianize…Dechristianize…Dechristianize…
    Hell's grim tyrant…the eldest of night and chaos
    Breathe once again…far from the shadow of god
    This day of reckoning will be unavenged
    Glory of wrathful inignation
    I deny god and all religion
    Turn up the whites of their eyes… Dechristianize…
    Dechristianize

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