Did Jesus pre-exist before his birth on Earth?

This topic contains 520 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by  NickHassan 8 months, 1 week ago.

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  • #804574
     Danny Dabbs 
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    Terraricca,

    I agree with you. Jesus did preexist as a person. The scriptures are very clear. Undeniable. By the way I reject the Man Made doctrines of the Trinity AND Oneness. Peace to you!

    Danny Dabbs

    #804575
     GeneBalthrop 
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    Terricca…….If Jesus was not a son of man then why did he say he was over and over about 80 times? Produce one scripture thatshows any activity of JESUS BEFORE HIS BERTH ON THIS EARTH. Tell us why did not Gabriel not know who he was if he had preexisted, instead he said, that holy thing in you “would” be called the son of God. HE DID NOT SAY HE “ALREADY WAS” THE SON OF GOD, BUT HE “WOULD” BE CALLED. That is a future tense expression, meaning it was not a past tense, so JESUS could not have had a past existence as a son of GOD.

    There are tons of scriptures that disprove JESUS preexisted his berth on this earth. But if you reject them and only focus on scriptures that can be taken different ways and have a preconviction about his prexistence, how can you be objective reguarding this subject.

    Terricca Satan want you and all of us to believe JESUS IS A GOD and PREXISTED his berth on earth , he want desperately to make Jesus appear different the we are. So he created the “DOCTRINE OF SEPERATION” CHANGING JESUS’S IDENITY FROM OURS SO WE WILL NOT TRULY BELIEVE JESUS WAS A TRULY HUMAN BEING. It changes our perception and our identification with him.

    If you could only understand, 2 TH 2, IS TALKING ABOUT A “LIE” THAT CREATES A FALSE “IMAGE” OF JESUS BEING A GOD, AND SITTING IN THE TEMPLE GOD BEING DESPLAYED AS A GOD, AND WORSHIPED AS A GOD, WHICH CHANGES THE “IMAGE” OF HIM FROM A HUMAN BEING INTO “A MAN OF SIN”.

    Go back a reread 2Ths2 and put Jesus there as what Paul was talking about and you can see that the “LIE” IS ABOUT JESUS . THIS WHOLE CONCEPT ABOUT JESUS PREEXISTING AND BEING A GOD, IS A “LIE” CREATED BY SATAN HIMSELF TO DECIEVE PEOPLE ABOUT WHO JESUS ACTUALL IS, IT HAS DECIEVED ALL CHRISTANITY. IT WAS DESIGNED TO MOVE JESUS AWAY FROM HIS HUMAN ROOTS AND CAUSE PEOPLE TO THINK THEY COULD NEVER BE EXACTLY LIKE HIM, BY MOVING HOW WE PERCIEVE HIM AWAY FROM OURSELVES, IT IS A “LIE” BROUGHT ON BY SATAN HIMSELF.

    IF YOU OR ANYONE ELSE DO NOT SEE JESUS AS A HUMAN BEING WHO CAME INTO EXISTENCE AT HIS BERTH ON THIS EARTH , YOU SIMPLY DO NOT SEE THE REAL JESUS, AND HAVE BOUGHT INTO THE BIGGEST LIE EVER TOLD. IMO

    peace and love to you and yours. ……………gene

    #804577
     Danny Dabbs 
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    Gene….I agree Jesus became 100% man but he was with his God and Father before becoming a human being. Can’t you see? Peace to you!

    #804579
     kerwin 
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    Danny Dabbs,

    I do not believe he did preexist his conception as he was conceived in Mary, as of the body. There is a First Century argument that human souls preexist their conception. I again do not think his soul preexisted his conception but my lack of knowledge on that issue means I am not certain.

    #804580
     kerwin 
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    Terrarica,

    Here is as summary and/or paraphrase of the words Peter spoke to those who had not known Christ as written in the New English Translation.

    Acts 2:22-36New English Translation (NET Bible)

    22 “Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man clearly attested to you by God with powerful deeds, wonders, and miraculous signs that God performed among you through him, just as you yourselves know— 23 this man, who was handed over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you executed by nailing him to a cross at the hands of Gentiles. 24 But God raised him up, having released him from the pains of death, because it was not possible for him to be held in its power. 25 For David says about him,

    ‘I saw the Lord always in front of me,
    for he is at my right hand so that I will not be shaken.
    26
    Therefore my heart was glad and my tongue rejoiced;
    my body also will live in hope,
    27
    because you will not leave my soul in Hades,
    nor permit your Holy One to experience decay.
    28
    You have made known to me the paths of life;
    you will make me full of joy with your presence.’

    29 “Brothers, I can speak confidently to you about our forefather David, that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30 So then, because he was a prophet and knew that God had sworn to him with an oath to seat one of his descendants on his throne, 31 David by foreseeing this spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that he was neither abandoned to Hades, nor did his body experience decay. 32 This Jesus God raised up, and we are all witnesses of it. 33 So then, exalted to the right hand of God, and having received the promise of the Holy Spirit from the Father, he has poured out what you both see and hear. 34 For David did not ascend into heaven, but he himself says,

    ‘The Lord said to my lord,
    “Sit at my right hand
    35
    until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.”’

    36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know beyond a doubt that God has made this Jesus whom you crucified both Lord and Christ.”

    You will find that among the many point Peter makes that day is 1) Jesus is a human being and 2) Jesus is a decedent of King David. The second point eliminates his body preexisting his conception and the first point eliminates him being any thing but a human being.

    He did not mention that Jesus was chief son of God or the chief son of humanity but both those titles are inherent in being the Christ, which he did mention.

    #804581
     Danny Dabbs 
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    Thank You. Kerwin,

    I think John 3:13 is very clear. “No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven—the Son of Man.” (HCSB)

    What do you think?

    Peace to you!

    Danny

    #804582
     kerwin 
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    Terrarica,

    for a real man comes from a women and a man connection

    This point denies the power of God as well as being untrue.

    It is untrue as in the case of identical twins the child of “twin” is formed through mitosis and not through the fusion of a male and a female gamete.

    Both the point and counterpoint are vain because they deny the power of God.

    To know when John the Baptist declared “For I tell you that God can raise up children for Abraham from these stones” that he spoke truth is a sign of faith in the power of God.

    The angel told Mary that Jesus would be conceived in her. The word conceived is always the start of something though for political and other reasons it has been changed in dictionaries to a slightly later time when speaking of women conceiving. After all no one wants to say a petri dish conceived a child even though it is technically true in some cases. To return to my point the angel essentially stated the holy thing will begin to exist inside your body and you are to name him Jesus.

    In Romans 1:3 we are taught that in regards to his body Jesus was made from the Seed of David. That matches up with Peter’s claim on Pentecost that Jesus is a descendant of King David.

    #804583
     kerwin 
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    Danny Dabbs,

    The context is Jesus speaking to Nicodemus at a time before he physically ascended to heaven. That context rules out a physical ascension and so leaves a Spiritual ascension. Jesus states he is in his Father and our Father, whom he calls God, and the Father of us all is in him. God is in heaven so in order for Jesus to be in him there must have been a Spiritual ascension. Believers do not Spiritually ascend to heaven until they enter the new covenant and that was first accomplished on Pentecost.

    John 3:13New International Version (NIV)

    13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.[a]
    Footnotes:

    John 3:13 Some manuscripts Man, who is in heaven

    I tend to think those manuscripts with the alternative text “who is in heaven” are correct as it better expresses the idea of God descending to live in Jesus by the Holy Spirit and Jesus ascending to sit with God on his throne through the same Spirit.

    #804584
     terraricca 
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    kerwin

    I tend to think those manuscripts with the alternative text “who is in heaven” are correct as it better expresses the idea of God descending to live in Jesus by the Holy Spirit and Jesus ascending to sit with God on his throne through the same Spirit.

    ———————————————————-
    this is trinitarian and bias at best first God almighty never came down to earth NEVER, the son did for the purpose explained in scriptures ,God does not live personally in anyone but his laws/wisdom/will/holiness/righteousness/truth/ …. does

    so you are wrong and rejecting the son of God that came down from heaven

    #804587
     kerwin 
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    Terrarica,

    God is all present but the center of his power is in heaven.

    Psalm 139:7-8English Standard Version (ESV)

    7
    Where shall I go from your Spirit?
    Or where shall I flee from your presence?
    8
    If I ascend to heaven, you are there!
    If I make my bed in Sheol, you are there!

    Nevertheless, you should know that believers that are immersed in the name of Jesus Christ are seated with him in heaven even as they are physically on earth, (Ephesians 2:6)

    You also should know that God dwells in them through his Spirit.(1 Corinthians 3:16)

    I simply apply these passages to Jesus and it explains the words of John 3:13.

    #804588
     kerwin 
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    Terrarica,

    God does not live personally in anyone but his laws/wisdom/will/holiness/righteousness/truth/ …. does

    I missed these words until I reread your post.

    The same Spirit he walks according to lives in those that believe as a teacher.

    #804590
     NickHassan 
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    Hi,

    The dogma of preexistence is a way those who do not know the Word made flesh rationalise truth.

    The Word was with God before Jesus was conceived .

     

    Of course the Word was not a being but the Spirit of Christ

     

     

    #804591
     terraricca 
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    Nick

    thanks for your opinion but opinions do not make scriptures ; you have still to get rid of your man made stories and start to believe what scriptures says ,

    where in scriptures does it says that the “word of God ” was the “spirit of Christ “?

    I know that the prophecies are the spirit of Christ Rev 19;. For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”

    understand that all prophecies testify of Jesus Christ , but not of the “WORD of GOD”

    #804592
     terraricca 
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    K

    God is all present but the center of his power is in heaven.

    God himself does not look at you but his angels are reporting you to him ,

    and yes there is no place that God would not be made aware of ;

    Job 1:6 One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them.
    Job 1:7 The LORD said to Satan, “Where have you come from?”
    Satan answered the LORD, “From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it.”

    MT 18:10 “See that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that their angels in heaven continually see the face of My Father who is in heaven

    it is the angels that protect us from arm by the wicked , just has it is the devil angels that put stumbling blocks in front of us

    #804597
     AndrewAD 
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    It all appears as to whether one believes the later revelations. Luke projects what he thinks was early/primitive belief.

    But as far as Holy Scripture goes it clearly proclaims the pre-existent Christ. For what of this verse from Hebrews as pertaining to Christ’s priesthood and sacrifice

    Hebrews 9:25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;

    Hebrews 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

    This shows the authors belief in the pre existense of Christ for how could he have suffered from the beginning of the world if he did not exist?

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