Before Abraham I AM

This topic contains 139 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  GeneBalthrop 4 days, 17 hours ago.

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  • #832035
     NickHassan 
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    Hi TC,

    You had read a day could be 1000 years but preferred the ideas of heathen theologians?

    Come out of her lest you suffer for her sins.

    #832055
     Truthcomber 
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    Hi Nick,

    You Wrote:

     So you say

     But what you say is from theology and not the word of God

     

    Me:

     

    I do not subscribe to anyone’s theology. I have an open mind and do not believe I know it all and that others cannot contribute to my understanding. If I am wrong, I will change my views readily. You should be the say way, not being stuck in second gear.

     

    You:

    Unless you repent you shall all likewise perish, All men need forgiveness as all sinned (Rom 3).

     

    Me:

     True.

     

    You:

    Forgiveness is found in the waters of baptism in the name of Jesus Christ as Peter said at Pentecost.

     

    Me:

    No, forgiveness is and has been from the inception of man (example: Luke 7:48).  Repentance brings forgiveness of sins.  Christ’s sacrifice brings cleansing of all sins retroactive) and freedom from the death brought on to man from Adam.

     

    Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

    1. Repent: Turn from one’s wicket ways and receive forgiveness of sins.

     

    1. Water baptism: To call upon the name of Christ to save you. This is done by being baptized in his name.

     

    1. Spirit baptism: you actually die with Christ and are cleanest of your sins and the penalty of death.

     

    1. Your heart and mind are converted by your resurrection form the dead as you receive holy spirit with the human heart and mind of Christ in it. This is the promise of the holy spirit. This is being begotten (born) of the earnest of the holy spirit.

     

    2 Corinthians 1:21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God; 22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest (Gk 728: a down payment) of the Spirit in our hearts.

    http://biblehub.com/lexicon/2_corinthians/1-22.htm

    Verse 22 implies we could extinguish the holy spirit if we turn our backs on God (1 Thes 5:19). We are born or begotten of the holy spirit at this point. We are not born again.

    1 Peter 1:21 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

    Me:

    This is at the first resurrection. For us Christians, born again means born of the holy spirit with Christ’s heart and soul in it, plus receiving new bodies.

    Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten (born ) of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

    Psalm 2:6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. 7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

    Romans 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

    Me: Christ was the first born of the dead. We are born again at the first resurrection.

     

    You:

    The book of Acts show how necessary water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ is. All who responded were baptized in water but not all immediately were given the Spirit as the Spirit can later come by prayer (LK). Philip preached and baptized but did not lay on hands to give the Spirit.

     

    Me: In the NT, you should be baptized water if you know you should and in if at all possible, whether before or after you receive the holy spirit. Otherwise, you would be disobeying God.

     

    You:

     

    God’s Holy Spirit is not placed in whited sepulchers but clean vessels.

     

    Me: True.

    #832058
     NickHassan 
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    Hi TC,

    Gal 3.27

    For all of you who were baptised into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

    WATER

     

    Gal 4.19

    My children, with whom I am again in labour until Christ is formed in you-

     

    SPIRIT  -and the long painful sanctification and transformation process begins.

    #832066
     Truthcomber 
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    Hi Nick,

    You had some question about my understanding of verse 18 below and the word baptism.

     

    Me:

    1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: 22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

    Me: vs. 18…put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison.

    Me: As a spirit being, he visited those in prison. So the prison could not be here on earth. Nor could it be in heaven, for that wouldn’t make sense. So it had to be in hades, the resting place of the souls that sleep in the heart of the earth.

    John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free…Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin…If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

     

    1 John 3:8 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

    Me: only those born of the promise of the holy spirit after Christ’s ascension into heaven, and their spirits themselves after their death have ascended, will not ever sin again. For the saints sin even now when they follow the flesh.

     

    John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed (after Chris’s ascension into heaven) all judgment unto the Son: … Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour (time) is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

    John 11:25  Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me (until the end of their lives) shall never die. Believest thou this?

    Me: The souls of the prophets and saints that had died would soon be risen from the dead after the Messiah’s ascension into heaven.

    1 Peter 3:19 By which also he went and proclaimed (G4151) unto the spirits in prison.

    http://biblehub.com/lexicon/1_peter/3-19.htm

     

    Me:

    What kind of prison were the saints in? It was the prison of sin and death. It was the prison that the Messiah freed them from.

     

    I believe that the baptism in 1 Peter 3:18is the baptism by the spirit of God with the heart and mind of Christ in it.

     

     

    #832067
     Truthcomber 
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    Hi Nick

     

    You wrote:

     

    Gal 3:27

    For all who have baptized into Christ have clothed themselves with Christ.

    WATER

     

    Me:

    The prophets of old were never baptized with water, but they were baptized with the holy spirit after Christ’s ascension into heaven.

    Most saints in the NT have been baptized with water, all have been baptized with the holy spirit.

     

     

    You wrote:

    Gal 4:19

    My children, with whom I am again in labour until Christ is formed in you.

     

    SPIRIT- and the long painful sanctification and transformation process begins.

     

    Me:

    True: We grow and are sanctified in the spirit after we are born of the spirit.

     

    Those in the OT had only the promise of Christ in the holy spirit as if it were.

    Romans 4:17… even Elohim…calleth those things which be not as though they were.

    Animal sacrifices were the order of the day.

     

    Those in the NT has the promise of the spirit fulfilled in real time.

    #832069
     NickHassan 
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    Hi TC,

    The prophets were already alive in the anointing Spirit before their death.1peter.1.11

    They did need to be anointed again.

    The Spirit abides.

    #832070
     NickHassan 
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    Hi TC,

    ‘If you do not have the Spirit of Christ you are none of his.’Rom 8

    The Spirit is what the church is built on and defined by and so is essential to all.

     

    #832071
     NickHassan 
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    Hi TC,

    A prison of sin and death?

    Tell us more of this prison that existed at the time of Noah.

    Hades and the bosom of Abraham as shown by Jesus sounds appropriate.

    Jesus could not be held by Hades and the church was given the keys to this prison too.

    #832077
     Truthcomber 
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    Hi Nick:

     

    You wrote:

    The prophets were already alive in the anointing spirit before their deaths. 1 Peter 1:11

    They need to be anointed again?

    The spirit abides.

     

    Me:

     1 Peter 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ (holy spirit) which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

    I had written page 3, July 4 @ 1:03 AM, the total response in which an insert response is listed below.

    What was the spirit inside of Christ and the prophets? It was the holy spirit (1 Peter 1:12). It wasn’t Christ’s spirit inside of the prophets, but the holy spirit. It wasn’t Christ’s spirit that was directing the words inside of him, but again the holy spirit.

     

    Complementary response: The prophets had the same holy spirit in them that was in Christ. The difference was that they did not have the human heart and mind of Christ inside of the holy spirit that was in them at that time. Only later, after the man Christ had ascended and was gloried in heaven, could they be baptized in their dead state in that same holy spirit with Christ in it and rise from the dead and ascend to heaven spiritually.

    #832078
     NickHassan 
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    Hi TC,

    The Spirit of Christ IS the Holy Spirit.

    #832079
     Ed J 
    Participant
    • Topics started 155
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    Hi TC,

    The Spirit of Christ IS the Holy Spirit.

    Not so Nick,

    One is the spirit of the son (Spirit of Christ). and
    the other is the Spirit of the Father (Holy Spirit),

    “And because ye are sons, God hath sent
    forth the Spirit of his Son (Spirit of Christ) into
    your hearts, crying, Abba, (Holy Spirit) Father.” (Gal 4:6)

    “Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us,
    and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be
    in subjection unto the Father of spirits (Holy Spirit), and live?” (Heb 12:9)

    ____________
    God bless
    Ed J

    #832081
     Truthcomber 
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    Hi Nick:

     

    You said:

    If you don’t have the spirit of Christ you are none of his. Romans 8

    The spirit is what the church is built on and defined by and so essential to all.

     

    Me:

     

    Every single verse that you see “spirit” in Romans 8 is addressing the holy spirit.

    Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

     

    Me:

    As I had written in an earlier post, in the end, there will be only one spirit for both man and beast: the holy spirit.

    The only other place besides 1 Peter 1:11 where the ‘spirit of Christ” is mentioned, is:

     

    Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ (spirit of God), he is none of his.

    Me:

    I had shown that the spirit of Christ in 1 Peter 1:11 is the spirit of God.

    2 Cor 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ….

     

    Me:

    God’s spirit was in Christ’s mind. That is the spirit of Christ.

     

    John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

     

    Me:

    Christ was the only son that was begotten by the holy spirit and the seed of David at conception. The book of John was written years after Christ was here. The holy spirit was and is Christ’s only spirit.

     

     

    Acts 2:31 Seeing what was to come, he spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah, that he was not abandoned to the realm of the dead, nor did his body see decay.

    Me:

    No spirit here.

     

    1 Cor 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

    Phil 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

    Isa 53:11 because he hath poured out his (H5315 nephesh: heart of his mind) unto death

    Me: mind and heart are  two of the definitions of nephesh.

    #832082
     NickHassan 
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    Hi TC,

    Beasts have the Holy Spirit.

    No, not written.

    Jesus always had only the anointing Holy Spirit.

    No he was and still is a man.

     

    Like us he could receive the Spirit while alive by his own spirit, and receive eternal life at his death

    when the anointing Spirit takes over.

     

    #832083
     NickHassan 
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    • Topics started 284
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    Hi TC,

    Like all the anointed of God he was alive in the Spirit when his own human spirit left him.

    He visited the spirits in prison from the time of Noah,  who never had the law not heard the message of Salvation.

    His SOUL was not  able to be held by Hades, and also his body did not decay

     

    #832084
     NickHassan 
    Participant
    • Topics started 284
    • Total replies 69,831

    Hi TC,

    Spirit in the mind?

    No the mind can be renewed by the Spirit unto the mind of Christ.

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