Before Abraham I AM

This topic contains 144 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  Truthcomber 2 months ago.

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  • #831719
     NickHassan 
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    Hi TC,

    Of course the BREATH of God is not the SPIRIT of God.

    Men and animals were not born of the Spirit of God.

     

    And you forgot to include Eccl 3.21 in your quote when you compared the fate of animals and men.

    #831720
     NickHassan 
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    Hi T8

    Amen.

    You need the Spirit to understand scripture.

    Seek and you will find.

    #831721
     NickHassan 
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    Hi TC,

    God chooses to define man in two ways.

    He was made in the image of God by the breath of God-inner man.

    But remember man that thou art dust and unto dust and unto dust thou shalt return.-outer man.

     

    Outer man has no future as flesh cannot enter the kingdom so is replaced by the new body.

    The human spirit returns to God Who gave it.

    Salvation of the soul is the goal.

     

    #831744
     NickHassan 
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    Hi TC,

    Do not complicate the simple meanings of scripture with Greek intellectualism.

    Scripture is spiritual and not according to the understanding of men.

     

     

    #831748
     NickHassan 
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    Hi TC,

    I note your quotes from Gary Zeolla.

    His site seems to focus on him, his health history, and his achievements including writing many books.

    Is he established in the Lord?

    Knowledge can be a vanity.

    #831755
     Truthcomber 
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    Gene Balthrop wrote

    TC… What i believe is that a living soul is simply a flesh body that has the breath of life in it. This is at least what Gen 2:6 says. I also believe that there is a spirit in man.

    Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath (H5397. neshamah) of life; and man became a living nephesh (H5315)

     

    Me: Man became a living “nephesh”. One of the definitions of nephesh, as you can see below is “living being”, and not “living soul”.  Also, soul (spirit) is also one of the definitions of nephesh and means mans spirit (soul) because nephesh addresses man. addresses spirit in John 3:8 and 6:63, but it is God’s spirit in these contexts.

    H5397. neshamah)

    Word Origin
    from nasham
    Definition
    breath
    NASB Translation
    blast (2), breath (15), breathes (1), life (1), persons alive (1), spirit (2), who breathed (3) nephesh

     

    Strong’s Concordance

    nephesh: a soul, living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, emotion Original Word: נָ֫פֶשׁ
    Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
    Transliteration: nephesh
    Phonetic Spelling: (neh’-fesh)
    Short Definition: soul

    Me: Now look in any dictionary.  The prevalent definition for soul is spirit.

    Young’s Literal Translation
    John 6:63 the spirit it is that is giving life; the flesh doth not profit anything…

    Me: It is the spirit that gives life.  God breath in Adam the spirit of life.  It was not the holy spirit, but an image of his spirit.

    John 3: 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

    Young’s Literal Translation
    Surely a spirit (breath) is in man, And the breath (spirit) of the Mighty One Doth cause them to understand.

     

    Me: This is another example of Hebrew parallelism. The spirit and soul of man are the same. God is spirit and does not have a soul (nephesh: spirit) of the body (nephesh).

     

    Interlinear Bible for 1 Thes 5:23:

    http://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_thessalonians/5-23.htm

    1 Thes 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Me: spirit and soul are Hebrew parallelism. It means the same thing. Notice the two “ands” in the scriptures above. If spirit and soul were different components you would have only one “and” and be as below.

    1 Thes 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Me: In the end, man has his own mind with the holy spirit from God and the soul from Christ as one spirit.

     

    Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

    Me: Everyone has their own minds, God, Christ and each man. That is what makes us all unique. All are bond by one spirit: the holy spirit with the soul of Christ in it. Thus God becomes one spirit with man.   God’s mind is in heaven, his soul is omnipresent.  God’s spirit from his mind is in Christ.  Christ’s soul from his human mind is in God.  And that one spirit is in our minds, because we die to our fleshly spirits (1 Cor 15:31). Our souls in us are evil (Jer 17:9).

     

    Phil 2: Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. 8 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

     

    Me: “Let this mind be in you” means to be like minded. The bible does not state “let” this spirit be in you” because after one is baptized in the holy spirit, he dies with Christ).   He then “has” the holy spirit.

    Likewise, each has his own body, but is like Christ and have a similar body to his. It also figuratively means  his temple or church.

     

    #831757
     Truthcomber 
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    Hi Nick,

     You wrote:

     

    Hi Ed and T8,

     You think that the spirit of Christ is the spirit of the man, Jesus?

     Then what was his human spirit doing in the prophets?

     As to this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace that would come to you made careful search and inquiry, seeking to know what person or time the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow.

     1 Peter 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. 10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you (those who Peter is addressing):

    John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

    Me: So, we are addressing the time of Christ and thereafter in which grace came. Grace came about because of the Messiah’s sacrifice.

     

     

     1 Peter 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ (holy spirit) which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

    Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son

    John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

     

    Me: What was the spirit both inside of Christ and the prophets. It was the holy spirit (1 Peter 1:12). It wasn’t Christ’s spirit inside of the prophets, but the holy spirit. It wasn’t Christ’s spirit that was directing Christ’s words inside of him, but again the holy spirit.

    1 Peter 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves (prophets), but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

    Me: So the spirit of Christ in this case was the holy spirit, both in the prophets and in Christ. That doesn’t mean that Christ does not have a human spirit emanating from his human mind. His mind bond with his father’s through their respective spirits.

     

    Nowhere in the OT do we find “the spirit of Christ”. The only other place where the spirit of Christ is found is below.

     

    Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of him (father) that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

    Me: Verse 9 confirms that the spirit of God is the spirit of Christ. There is one spirit. But the spirit of the mind of Christ is bonded as one with the holy spirit. Even though this aspect was not true in the OT, the spirit of Christ is still the spirit of God.

    #831758
     GeneBalthrop 
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    Nick..the soul “is” the living body. What part of Genesis 2:7, you are unable to understand. Forcing text to meet you speculations doesn’t work. Jesus was raised with his soul body and went up into the heavens with it. His body did not experience corruption ever, because he never sinned.

    Peace and love to you and yours. ….gene

    #831759
     GeneBalthrop 
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    TC…..I completely agree with your post, Jesus had his own spirit AND SOUL”BODY”, just as we do, and we combined with the spirit of God and became one in spirit. This is exactly what happens to us when we recieve the Holy Spirit, from God the Father. Then we also become sons of the living God as Jesus is. It is one spirit of God, that is to be “IN ALL AND THROUGH ALL”.

    Peace and love to you and yours. ….gene

    #831762
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Tc,

    Yes.

    But the human spirit does not emanate from the mind.

    It is of the breath of God given to Adam that has been passed on through the generations.

    It return to God at death as happened with Jesus on Calvary.

     

    #831763
     GeneBalthrop 
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    TC…This is the way i translate the meaning of what 1 PETER 1:11,…”searching what, or what manner of time the spirit of (the anointing ) which was “in” them did signify, when “it” testified beforehand the suffering of the (anointed) Jesus, and the glory that should follow.

    The word Christ can be referencing JESUS, BUT CAN ALSO MEAN ANYONE ANOINTED TO, DEPENDS ON CONTEXT.

    We know that Christ be in you does not mean the man Jesus himself, but the anointing that was “in’ him be in us also. The word Christ can be used in various way INO.

    For instance where it says, CHRIST was following following Israel, in the wilderness that is not refferencing the man Jesus, but the anointing spirit of God. “The holy spirit”.

    See my point?

    Peace and love to you and yours. ……gene

    #831764
     GeneBalthrop 
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    Nick….There is no human spirit, there is Spirit God put in man m and it certainly does animate the mind, it gives us our intellects we have, just as it gives animales their intelligent they have. All life is of the spirit, that life giving intellect is even in our blood, or how would our genetic codes even work without spirit causing them to function properly? Spirit is what life is period, it drives the “life” of the person it is in.

    Peace and love to you and yours. …..gene

    #831766
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Gene,

    Having opposed the teaching of Jesus you now spread your wings and oppose all scripture?

    Where does scripture say men and animals all received His Spirit?

    LIFE giving INTELLECT? Nonsense.

     

    #831767
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Gene,

    Your dogma that the dirt body just has life added limits your growth.

    Your dogma makes no room even for your beloved intellect.

    #831768
     NickHassan 
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    Hi TC,

    Yes we can receive a new heart and the mind of Christ if we submit to the work of the Spirit

    But he remains as head of the Body which includes us if we have been ‘beheaded’

     

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