Before Abraham I AM

This topic contains 144 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  Truthcomber 4 months ago.

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  • #831597
     Truthcomber 
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    I do not have any idea what happened to this post.  So here again.

    John 8:56 (YLT) Abraham, your father, was glad that he might (future) see my day; and he saw, and did rejoice.’

    Heb 11:39 And these (all those mentioned in this chapter including Abraham), having obtained a good report through faith, <u>received not the promise</u>: 40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect. The emphasis in the paragraph in verse 39 is mine.

    Comment: The “promise” deals with salvation.

    1 Cor 15:21 (NLT) So you see, just as death came into the world through a man, now the resurrection from the dead has begun through another man.

    Comment: And salvation deals with the Messiah.

    Vs.57 The Jews, therefore, said unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and Abraham hast thou seen?' <strong>58</strong> Jesus said to them,Verily, verily, I say to you, Before Abraham’s <u>coming</u> (future)– I am;

    Comment: The Jews did not understand Christ’s words. They thought that the Messiah said that he and Abraham had seen each other back then. But as the YTL translation puts it, “before Abraham’s coming—I Am. Now is “I am” God Almighty’s name and also the Messiah’s name, making them one and the same of two of the three persons of the trinity?

    Young’s Literal Translation
    Exodus 3:14 And God saith unto Moses, ‘I AM THAT WHICH I AM;’ He saith also, ‘Thus dost thou say to the sons of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.’

    Judges 13:18 (NLT) “Why do you ask my name?” the angel of the LORD replied. “It is too wonderful for you to understand.”

    Comment: I am is not the name of God. God’s name is incomprehensible to those not a fully born son of God. “I am” was what Moses would reply to any of the children of Israel if any inquire of God’s name. Therefore when Christ said “I am”, he simply meant that he existed as the first of the new creation. Christ had inherited that name after his ascension into heaven. Thus the name (incomprehensible now) of Christ is not Christ.

    Col 1:15 who is the image of the invisible God, first-born of all creation,… 18 And himself is the head of the body — the assembly — who is a beginning, a first-born out of the dead, that he might become in all [things] — himself — first,

    Comment: Before Abraham could be resurrected from the dead, Christ would have to be the first be resurrected from the dead. Christ is the beginning of the new creation (Rev 21:5, Isa 65:17, 2 Cor 5:17).

    John 5:25 Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live.

    John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

    Comment: This is the resurrection of the souls of those saints and prophets that died before the glorification of the Messiah.

    John 11:26 And whosoever liveth (physically) and believeth (spiritually) in me (endure to the end) shall never die. Believest thou this?

    Comment: This is the resurrection of the souls into life that were still alive after the Messiah’s glorification and were baptized in the holy spirit (water baptism is only symbolic). And if they endure to the end, they would never die both before and after their bodies had died.

     

    Three steps:

    Born of the holy spirit.

    Born of the Messiah’s soul

    Born of the Messiah’s body

    Each of all the points above can be studied in much more detail.

     All comments in the parenthesis are mine.

     

     

     

     

    #831602
     NickHassan 
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    Hi TC,

    Do you hear the voice of the Spirit in the words of Jesus, the anointed one?

    “..In these last days God has spoken to us through His Son.”

    “Before Abraham I AM”

    #831605
     Truthcomber 
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    Yes

    #831606
     Truthcomber 
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    To expound on the name of God in my above post:

    Prov 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son’s name, if thou canst tell?

    Judges 13:8 “Why do you ask my name?” the angel of the LORD replied. “It is too wonderful for you to understand.”

     

     

    Acts 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead…12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

    Joel 2:32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD (Yahweh) shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

    Comment: The name in back of Christ name is the name in back of his father’s name.

     

    John 5:43 I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

    Comment: The hidden name in back of his father name Yahweh is not Yahweh. Neither is the hidden name in the back of Christ, Christ.

     

    Heb 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. 5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

    Romans 8:14 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

    Comment: The church members shall inherit the name of God as join-heirs with Christ.

    Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

     

    Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

    Comment: The church shall inherit the incomprehensible name of God .

    1 John 3: 1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

     

     

    #831607
     NickHassan 
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    Hi TC,

    We will never become Jesus just as he will never become his Father

    but we can have the same unity he has with his Father.

    Jn 17.22f

     

    #831610
     Truthcomber 
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    Absolutely!  I will get back with you tonight–need to run.

    #831612
     NickHassan 
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    Hi TC,

    We can share in the Spirit of Christ, in fact we must do so to be of him. Rom 8

    We are his body on earth and we commemorate this in the breaking of the bread.

    We are not him and do not share his soul just as he does not share his Father’s soul.

    Ps 11

    #831637
     Truthcomber 
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    Nick Wrote: We never become Jesus as he never becomes his father but we have the same unity as he has with his father.

     

    Me: True, we never become Christ, but we should strive to be like him. I agree we have unity with the father. But I also believe they are of different intensities according to how we are rewarded.

    1 Cor 15:41  There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead

     

    Nick wrote:We can share the spirit of Christ, in fact we must do so to be of him. Romans 8. We are his body on earth and we commemorate this with the breaking of bread. We are not him and we do not share his soul, just as he does not share his father’s soul.

     

    Me: Sprit and soul are used interchangeable in regards to our humanity.

    http://www.dtl.org/misc/treatise/soul-spirit-2.htm

    http://www.dtl.org/misc/treatise/soul-spirit-1.htm

    https://www.gotquestions.org/anthropomorphism.html

    Only three places (Lev 26:11, Judges 10:16 and Jer 32:41) in the bible are soul used in connection with God, and it is usedanthropomorphically.

     

    John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

    Me: Nowhere does it say that God is soul if we take soul as the spirit of the body. The Messiah is the manifestation of God in body and soul. We share the spirit or soul of Christ.

     

    John 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father

    Me: God does not inherently have a soul, but Christ is the manifestation of the soul of God (vs.7). God does not have a body, but Christ is a representation of a body (vs.9).

     

    First, we must realize that there is a difference between mind and spirit. The two below verses suggest this.

    Romans 8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

    Eph 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

     Me: This is the holy spirit.

     

    Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh (spirit of the flesh), ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God.

    Comment: Thus, if there is a spirit of the flesh, there is a mind of the flesh. If there is a spirit mind, there is the holy spirit within it. When Adam and Eve disobeyed God, their spirit mind died. They had a spirit mind prior, but not with the holy spirit in it. For then there would be no need for the tree of life. And A & E became like God to know good and evil only after they had eaten. Witness below:

    Matt 8:22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead (spirit mind) bury their dead (body and spirit mind).

    John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly (G2836: soul or heart) shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet____; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

    http://biblehub.com/greek/2836.htm

    Definition 5 . in imitation of the Hebrew בֶּטֶן, tropically, the innermost part of a man, the soul, heart, as the seat of thought, feeling, choice (Job 15:35; Job 32:18 (the Sept.

    Me: “yet” is an added word in John 7:39. Therefore it should read “the spirit was not yet____’ and not “the spirit was not yet given”. For the holy spirit had been given to the prophets from John the Baptist backward. It was given to the apostles after Christ resurrection (John 20:22). But the promise of the holy spirit, that is the soul from the fleshly mind of Christ had not bonded as one with the holy spirit from the mind of God. Bonding happened only after Christ was glorified.

    Thus we die gradually of the soul of our minds when we receive Christ’s soul in the one spirit. We grow in the holy spirit in our spirit minds.

    Ezk 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

    John 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father (Christ’s soul in the father’s mind, and the Father (the holy spirit from the mind of God) in me…20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

    #831638
     Truthcomber 
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    Our heavenly Father’s mind is in heaven. His spirit is omnipresent.

    #831639
     GeneBalthrop 
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    TC…what is your definition of spirits, i believe spirits are kinds and types of intellewhich guide our thoughts. Whats your understanding of them.

    Peace and love to you and yours. …..gene

    #831654
     Truthcomber 
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    Hi Gene, Nick and all,

     

    Me: I believe that there are three elements that pertain to the immaterial part of man.

    1) Mind: pertains to our intellect.

    2) Spirit is a broader term than soul and pertains to our character and, i.e. that is the spirit of love, goodness and peace as opposed to the opposite. It also means life (Romans 8:10 below).

    3) Soul is a narrower term than spirit and pertains mostly in connection to a body. This is evident in that soul can also mean body or the whole person in the OT. In the NT, soul means basically the spirit of the body but can mean the whole person as in 1 Cor 15:45 below.

    Both spirit and soul give life to a body, whether one of the spirit or of the flesh.

    1 Cor 15:45 (KJV) And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last (man) Adam was made a quickening spirit.

    Me: The spirit (soul) of the fleshly body is the life force of the entire soul or person. The life force of the spirit body is the soul of Christ bonded with the spirit of God. The life force of the first Adam and his descendants are the human soul of Adam.

     

    Romans 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body (first body) is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life (of the second body) because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

    Me: The soul is also the life force of the entire physical creation (Ecc 3:19).   

    1 Cor 15:21 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead (includes ourselves and the entire animal kingdom), if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

    Me: What dead are we baptized for?

    Romans 8:19 (NLT) For all creation is waiting eagerly for that future day when God will reveal who his children really are. 20 Against its will, all creation was subjected to God’s curse (death). But with eager hope. 21 the creation looks forward to the day when it will join God’s children in glorious freedom from death and decay. 22 For we know that all creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.

    Comment: “All creation” pertains to those of the breath (spirit) and literal breath of life in them and those with tongues and knees (see scripture below).  Fish pertains to dolphins, whales, etc. and not literal fish.

    Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us (singular, plural intensive) make man in our (singular, plural intensive) image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

    Me: Man has dominion over the animals. They cannot repent and be baptized. When the new life force is of the new spirit (with the soul of Christ bonded to it), all the animal kingdom will live and worship God.

    Rev 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

    Phil 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him (Christ), and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name (unknown now) of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

    #831660
     NickHassan 
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    Hi TC,

    There is a division between soul and spirit as Heb 4.12 states.

    At death the spirit returns to God (Eccl 12.7)but not the soul which sleeps in Christ (1 thess.4.13)or awaits judgement(rev 20.11)

     

    #831663
     NickHassan 
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    Hi TC,

    We are bonded to the soul of Christ?

    These sorts of ideas do not seem to spring from scripture.

    Do not go beyond what is written 2jn 9 as Gnosticism springs from the imaginations of men.

     

    #831664
     NickHassan 
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    Hi TC,

    The soul is the life force of all creation?

    You have offer Eccl 3.19 but the soul as the life force is not mentioned.

    “For the fate of the sons of men and the fate of beasts is the same.

    As one dies so dies the other; indeed they all have the same breath

    and there is no advantage for man over beast, for all is vanity.

    All go to the same place. All came from the dust and return to the dust.

    Who knows that the breath of man ascends upwards and the breath of the beast downward to the earth.”

     

    By the breath of God dust man became a living(spirit) soul(soul) genesis

    The spirit of man returns to God at death.(Eccl 12) It goes upwards.

    Man must find the rivers of life (Jn 7)before the wheel breaks and the bucket at the well of human life is lost(Eccl 12)

     

    #831665
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Gene,

    Those are your own ideas about spirits.

    Have you searched the scriptures?

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