Are the sons of God the angels?

This topic contains 164 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Jodi Jodi 4 days, 21 hours ago.

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  • #817084
    Profile photo of NickHassan NickHassan 
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    Hi Jael,

    Or were you referring to Matt 21 when the kingdom was taken away from the Jews and given to another people who will produce fruit.

    Satan is not directly involved here either.

    #817092
    Profile photo of Jael Jael 
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    Hi Nick,

    You asked me to show evidence of the statements I made concerning Satan being the highest Angel in heaven and his prominence as the steward over creation (spoken of as ‘All the kingdoms of the world’.

    Well, can I start by expressing my dismay that you do not already know these things causing you to need to ask.

    It surprises me that the truth of the scriptures is a foreign world that has denied you access to its glory that is actually fully open to all who desire to find it. That truth and that door is symbolised by the one holy and sinless son of God, the man Jesus Christ, the receiver in glory of the rulership over creation.

    Nick, when the scriptures refers to ‘earth’ or ‘kingdoms of the world’, it is not referring to the physical planet called ‘EARTH’. It is referring to ‘The WHOLE OF CREATION’.

    Nick, do you believe the words of Satan that he would hand over the rulership to Jesus if Jesus worshipped him? Obviously Satan was deceptive in that if Jesus did worship him, Satan would become Jesus’ God in place of the true God. Jesus knew exactly what Satan was saying… He also knew what Satan DIDNT say openly… That Jesus could avoid the pain, suffering, humiliation, …and death, that was his road to receiving the glory of becoming the ruler over creation.

    Imagine how much temptation that was to perform a simple little act and profess your allegiance to HIM and what he would suffer would be put away… Jesus sweated blood in fervent prayer to the Father but finally gave way to the will of God.

    Nick, do you believe what Jesus said… That the ruler of the world is coming into his kingdom? Nick, do you believe that the WORLD and the kingdoms of the world apply only to planet Earth?

    Nick, is your objection to the truth based on your reading (or rather, NON-reading) of the scriptures?

    I would warrant that nothing you could devise, nothing you can put to this forum, nothing from you that is the truth, could explain or show any truer truth over what has been said already that you object to.

    – God placed Angels in authority and power over ever aspect of his creation

    – The Angel come to be known as Satan was in the highest place: ‘Thou has walked on the mountain of God’ and is undoubtedly the leader of the demonic Angels after the fall of mankind. No demon Angel is greater than the one called Satan.

    – The rulership over the creation was only ever STEWARDED to the Angels. Earthly man was born historically ill equipped to take up the glory of managing creation: ‘Even though he is a prince, as a child he is subject to a place no different to that of a servant’. Mature mankind was always destined to take over the rulership from its steward placeholders: the Angels. ADAM, firstborn of humanity, was the original destined as the holy son of God to take over the rulership. He sinned, and another was put in place: Jesus Christ… To him, Jesus Christ, was given that glory when he, Jesus Christ, did what Adam did not do…refused the bad and accepted the good.

    And, Nick, how could Satan ‘fall from heaven’ if he went in heaven… In the timeline of humanity, why was Satan only thrown out of heaven tens of thousands of years after Satan deceived mankind in the garden of Eden? Can it be suggested that it was because great leaders are not taken out of their power UNTIL they have been proved categorically to have committed a worthy wrong – the greatest godly crime possible.

    Almighty God is ‘a just God’. He fears no one… Retaining Satan in heaven until Satan was proved wrong IS a fully just action. Almighty God afforded Satan ever opportunity to prove his point without restraint. Finally, he allowed his only holy and sinless son to suffer mercilessly at the hands of Satan. Jesus Christ held out against the mighty angelic ‘Father of the lie’: ‘And no place was found for him [Satan]’.

    Nick, thank you for providing yourself as a spiritual weight to help me flex my spiritual muscles and build up strength in the truth of scriptures, of Almighty God, and of Christ Jesus.

    #817100
    Profile photo of NickHassan NickHassan 
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    Hi Jael,

    And how did you come to the conclusion that EARTH means the whole of creation?

    If seems that you have added a lot of speculation into your claim that Satan was in the HIGHEST place.

    Since truth is found by two or three witnesses(2 Cor 13) it rather seems you rely on single verses to which you add personal opinion.

     

    If you want us to take you seriously you must show more scholarship.

     

    #817104
    Profile photo of NickHassan NickHassan 
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    Hi Jael,

    Do you accept that truth cannot be asserted on the basis of one scripture?

    Do you agree that God wants us to tests all things and scripture is proven by scripture?

     

     

    #817105
    Profile photo of NickHassan NickHassan 
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    Hi Jael,

    Why did you decide that the KINGDOMS OF THE EARTH did not mean what is says

    but means the whole of creation??

    #817106
    Profile photo of NickHassan NickHassan 
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    Hi Jael,

    Ezekiel 28 does not say that Satan was in a higher place than any other angelic son.

    And there are no verses even to confirm what you think it means are there?

    #817119
    Profile photo of t8 t8 
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    Hi Jael,

    Do you accept that truth cannot be asserted on the basis of one scripture?

    I do sometimes think people say such things because there is a scripture that contradicts what they believe like your disbelief of Luke 2:11.

    Scripture is true and neither will a true idea contradict a scripture that is true.

    But yes, one scripture is not really enough to prove truth as it could be contextual only or other such thing. Truth is normally supported in more than one way.

    #817186
    Profile photo of Jael Jael 
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    Nick, t8,

    Please show by way of a proof even one thing that I said that was incorrect…. Please (try to) do so.

    ‘Kingdoms of the world’… Do you both imagine that Satan showed Jesus the ‘WORLD’ of the Middle East and said ‘This all can be yours!’.?

    Do you imagine Satan showed Jesus planet Earth as being ‘the kingdoms of the world’?

    Consider John 3:13, ‘as it is written, “What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man imagined, what God has prepared for those who love him” ‘

    Consider that mankind even now (unimaginable to 1st century Jews) is preparing to colonise other planets… Do you imagine that God and Christ will not be there – that Jesus would not have seen the ‘kingdom on Mars’ or the kingdom on ‘some far flung habitable planet in Alpha Centuri’?

    Is the World as seen from a Spirit eye limited to planet Earth? What are the wonders of the universe for if the spirit is limited to the ‘Paradise Planet’.

    (Do you see beautiful planet Earth as being analogous to the beautiful garden of Eden? What did God say to THE MAN concerning the development of it? What prevents (restricts) our colonising other habitable planets? Time…, Resource….. We would die before reaching an worthy planet… Hey, what if we were IMMORTAL… Had ALL THE TIME we need (and more!)… Hey, AND ALL THE RESOURCES we need (and more!) Did Satan foresee this? Did he show it to Jesus and say, ‘Hey, you can be the ruler of all these wonders!’)

    #817192
    Profile photo of t8 t8 
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    I have no argument with you Jael. I was agreeing with you. My last post in this topic was addressed to Nick.

    #817197
    Profile photo of Jael Jael 
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    t8, ooops, sorry… Read your post in a rush!!

    There are, I think, too many ‘Nicodemuses’ who can’t understand spiritual matters – they apply them to limited earthly matters.

    Nicodemus could not imagine the ‘Spiritual rebirth’ – he only imagined Jesus was speaking of being reborn through a physical woman like a human baby.

    #817200
    Profile photo of t8 t8 
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    I agree. And I agree that the Trinity Doctrine is a false doctrine. I have been refuting this doctrine on this site from the beginning.

    Keeping to this topic, what is you view on the sons of God in Job and Genesis 6?

    Now it came about, when men began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, 2 that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose. 3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, because he also is flesh; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.” 4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

    Are these sons of God angelic beings, men, or some other pre-Adamic race or class of being?

    #817216
    Profile photo of Jael Jael 
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    Well, t8, I am unsure of how this all works.

    The verses say and interpretations cause confusion concerning that the nephilim were on the earth ‘at the time’ that the sons of God took daughters of man.

    So where did the nephilim come from? Some say they were the product of angelic and human female interaction.

    Of course Angels cannot procreate. However, they can create a human-like body, albeit inanimated, in which they can implant themselves to ‘en-spirit’ the body.

    Such a Angel spirit-made body could well break the bounds of normal human body resulting in larger and stronger beings but not fully conducive with the world that God created for humankind.

    My own personal view is … I don’t know about the precise order – nor care!!

    What I do know from the scriptures is that (some of) the sons of God rebelled – and to answer your question, yes, I do believe that they were Angels.

    It seems that in those days Angels were allowed to mingle freely in the physical world and those of the fallen state saw the activities of humans in that they could create offsprings of themselves -offsprings that gave great reverence to their parent and women who gave great adoration to their husband. They too could be greatly adored and ‘worshipped’ if they could do likewise, so they illegally entered into a unregulated breeding session with unwilling (ha! Or willing ….!) relationship with human women.

    Interestingly, has anyone observed that many women willingly and happily desire the ‘Alien Male’ who would hopefully allow their offspring to be greater, fitter, stronger, …than that of the contemporary of their own kind?

    #819132
    Profile photo of Jodi Jodi 
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    My understanding is that the Sons of God were indeed men, men of God who fell for and married woman who were far from righteous. God says that He ALONE exists with Powers, that He brings blessing and cursing. In Deuteronomy we see His curses include evil spirits inflicting men, making them go mad! To “worship” is not necessarily to give praise and honor, but is to fear and to denote super natural power to a “being” that God says He ALONE has. So IMO fallen angels are false gods that simply do not exist. The English word Satan in Hebrew is pronounced saw-tawn and it means adversary, it does not mean a name to a fallen angel. When God brought blessings through His Messengers to the Israelites these angels were seen as good. When God brought cursing these angels were known as saw-tawns/ adversaries. This is exactly what you see in the book of Job!! The adversary in the book of Job was in God’s presence and He followed God’s will, but he was an adversary to Job. In the end this adversary brought Job through testing to become a more righteous man! When Jesus received the Spirit and great powers he went into the wilderness and was tested and didn’t eat for 40 days. He was tempted by man’s great adversary, what the bible repeatedly explains is our own weak flesh that draws us to serve ourselves and our own desires and will. In scripture man is likened to a beast/wild animal, for following his own desires. The book of Enoch, written just a few hundred years before Christ as I recall, resulted in a Jewish doctrine where Jews believed fallen angels were responsible for man’s evil ways on earth. This belief is completely against scripture.  Please really think on the understanding of the Israelites and how they referred to God’s angels, who brought His will of cursing, as saw-tawns/adversaries. Please remember that God says He ALONE exists with Powers and He ALONE brings cursing upon man. If someone is “possessed” by a demon/evil spirit they have gone mad, just as God warned He would do!  Understanding this might keep you from believing in false gods!!

    #819133
    Profile photo of t8 t8 
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    The Book of Enoch from which scripture seems to quote verbatim has a story more elaborate than this explanation Jodi. Further, considering the Bible only, there are a number of difficulties with the argument that we are talking about the sons of Seth. I will try and find a video on the subject to save myself writing it all down.

    #819134
    Profile photo of t8 t8 
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    Who Are the Sons of God in Genesis 6?

    (The Sethite View Debunked)

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