Does free will exist?

Free will

Many today say that humans do not have true free will. They argue that free will is an illusion and our choices are dependent on our biology, circumstances, and randomness. This kind of thinking leads to one place. That no one is really responsible for their actions. So if I was to have all my atoms replaced by that of a murder, then I would be that murder.

This argument is usually based on the idea that we cannot control our thoughts. To have free will over our thoughts is not true. Thoughts just spring up out of nowhere. They just appear. If we had control over this process, then we would have to think whether we wanted to think that thought first right, and that would involve that thought coming from nowhere. Sounds logical enough. And I have to agree that thoughts do spring up in our mind that we seem to have no control of. This view has a number of holes in it however.

Firstly, free will is not the ability to think what we want. It is the ability to choose what we want among the available options that are presented to us. We don’t always choose what we prefer either. Sometimes we choose to do things because we take others into consideration. Sure we cannot control or choose all the options. I cannot choose to go to Mars for example. And yes, I cannot always choose the thoughts that arise in my mind, but when presented with something, I can choose to do the best, mediocre, worst in any situation. Free will is the ability to choose freely and act upon that. I may not have control over the options which may even include thoughts that spring into my mind. But when I choose one thing or another in my mind, then I own or disown the thought.

We see examples of free will every day of our lives. Will I eat here or there. Will I do this or that. Will I ring my friend, watch TV, or do some work. The fact that I can own a thought, choose an option, or act upon a thought is what makes me a conscious entity. My will is perhaps what is uniquely me. My body may be made of recycled atoms, but my will is my own and no one else’s. I am my will.

In scripture we see plenty of examples of men and women who chose God and others who rejected him. We see people choosing good over evil and evil over good. We see good men do bad things and bad people seemingly do good things. We are also taught that we are rewarded by God for good things we do and we are also held responsible for the bad things we do which is why repentance is important. Quite frankly, if we did’t have a free will, then it would be unjust to punish us for mistakes and bad things we do. Why would God hold us responsible for things that we have no control over? Why should God be disappointing with us if he knows we couldn’t have chosen better? I would say the very reason that God holds us responsible for our actions is because he has given us free will. He gives us the ability to align our will with his or to go our own way.

Yeshua of Nazareth so clearly demonstrated this to us when he said in Luke 22:42

“Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.”


Further Resources

Video on free will

 

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  • #176233
    Profile photo of MelinaAlahuhta gollamudi 
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    Question:
    In 2 Thessalonians 2:11 it says God will send sinners a “strong delusion.” Why would God have to send a “delusion” if men have no freewill? It appears to indicate that men must have a choice otherwise God would not have to fool them?

    Answer:

    First, it is important to define what is meant by the term “free will.” When I state that men do not have “free will,” it does not mean men have no choices. What I am reacting against (and I believe the Bible would confirm my conviction) is the idea of libertarian autonomy. In other words, the classic, philosophical idea that a person's will and reason is separated from any influence by his or her sin nature. The Bible never separates man into compartments, where one compartment would have no influence on any of the others. The scriptures clearly teach that the will and mind of a sinner is woven with his sin nature so that the choices made by the sinner are in one accord with his sin nature.

    Moreover, the idea of Total Depravity does not indicate a totality of degree, as if a sinner is as depraved as he or she could be, but the description speaks more to a sinner's orientation. There is a wide spectrum of sinners. For example, a sinner could be a right wing moralist, while another sinner could be involved with producing pornography and exploiting young girls; yet, both sinners are oriented away from God. It is the Lord who restrains the severity of sinners' depravity displaying itself in action, and that restraint is a gracious act of God, because it keeps the sinner from filling up a rather large cup of wrath.

    This does not mean that a sinner does not make genuine choices. Sinners make free choices, but those choices will be according to their nature. The Bible defines being fallen into sin as being a God hater, so sinners will make choices that never take into account the sovereignty and lordship of God because they by nature hate God. Those choices are made freely, from their heart, but those choices will be oriented toward ungodliness, or perhaps self-righteousness if the person is a moralist.

    Coming to 2 Thessalonians 2:11, the expression “strong delusion” speaks more to God giving sinners up to their utter depravity (similar to Romans 1), so that they will be certain to be condemned, as 2:12 affirms. Basically, God, by giving them strong delusion, is fixing them in their condemnation by removing His grace and leaving them to their sin. In like fashion, God sent a wicked spirit to torment Saul in 1 Samuel. The torment of the wicked spirit only served to stir up Saul's wicked heart so that his internal sin would be manifested outwardly (what we see when he attacked David and behaved irrationally), and thus he is solidified as certainly bearing God's judgment upon him. I believe this is what Paul has in mind when he states that these men will be sent a “strong delusion.”

    Link: http://www.fredsbibletalk.com/qa015.html

    #176236
    Profile photo of Ed J Ed J 
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    Quote (gollamudi @ Feb. 07 2010,14:30)
    Myth of Free Will :

    Please share your views
    Adam


    Hi Adam,

    The myth of no free will; You present a false truth.
    Just because there is influence on everybody does NOT negate “FREE WILL”!

    Ed J
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #176253
    Profile photo of chosenone chosenone 
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    Quote (gollamudi @ Feb. 07 2010,14:30)
    Please share your views
    Adam


    Hi Adam.
    A very good post. I agree, and the post you presented has some very good points. Yes, “free will” is nowhere in scripture, yes it does say “choose”, but it is God who dircets our paths.
    Eph.1:11 states this clearly … in Him in Whom our lot was cast also, being designated beforehand according to the purpose of the One Who is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will,
    How can one argue with this? “the One (God) Who is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will,”
    May I add one ,ore scripture … For His achievement are we, being created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God makes ready beforehand, that we should be walking in them.
    (Eph.2:10)
    Trust scripture, “All is of God”.

    Blessings, Jerry.

    #176268
    Profile photo of terraricca terraricca 
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    CO

    terraricca

    Group: Members
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    Joined: Oct. 2009 Posted: Feb. 07 2010,02:03

    ——————————————————————————–
    CO

    Isa 54:15 Behold, they shall surely gather together, but not by me: whosoever shall gather together against thee shall fall for thy sake.
    Isa 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.
    Isa 54:17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.

    i do not see what you say ,that God created Satan;

    Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things

    this just shows God saying he made light and so made darkness;this is obvious enough.
    now he says he make peace and by doing so he as create evil,this is also obvious enough .

    your interpretation is wrong i have never see this before this as nothing the do with Satan.

    Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
    Isa 46:11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.
    Isa 46:12 Hearken unto me, ye stouthearted, that are far from righteousness:

    this verses as nothing to do with the interpretation you are given it,
    of cause God does what he wants but for a reason and it is explain in the fallowing verse,why do you only read part of a verse to twisted to your own mind.

    Eph 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
    Eph 1:8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
    Eph 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
    Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
    Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
    Eph 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
    Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
    Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
    Eph 1:15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,
    Eph 1:16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;

    in this verses you quote is the truth spell out clearly ,why so you cut it up for the purpose of your own mind.??god purpose was to save men from the beginning and use his son to fulfil it.SO ?
    counsel means advise it also obvious that God give advice .

    God will ,will always be done, with us accepting is grace or not, the effect will be only to us because we did not accepted so we die,but if we accepted we live ,this is were there is a difference.
    but we are free to chose.that s a fact.and it is our will to do it ,

    all is of God ,what that statement as to do with free will ,God as created all things do not know that much ? he also as created as free to chose between good and evil. so if we have a choice we have free will.
    if not then we are robots and fallow orders as per the buttons are pushed.

    as for your comment “save yourselves” just because we have free will ,we are not saved this is ridiculous to think that .

    Christ said ;there are two doors a big one and a small one did he not say that we can pick which door we want to go through,if you can not chose why making two doors??

    think about it free will is only direct related to our responsibility of choice between serving God or not.

    I CAN NOT SAY IT ANY BETTER SO THAT 'S IT ,IT IS UP TO YOU TO UNDERSTAND IT.YOU ARE FREE IN YOUR WILL (DESISION)

    ————–

    #176282
    Profile photo of MelinaAlahuhta gollamudi 
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    Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 07 2010,15:12)

    Quote (gollamudi @ Feb. 07 2010,14:30)
    Myth of Free Will :

    Please share your views
    Adam


    Hi Adam,

    The myth of no free will; You present a false truth.
    Just because there is influence on everybody does NOT negate “FREE WILL”!

    Ed J
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org


    Hi brother Ed J,
    I know many of our brothers will not agree with these views. Yes, you are right our wills are certainly influenced either by our own inner cause and effects or by God. I don't believe in any (personal)devil who causes us to commit evil. Once our will is influenced by somebody or some thing it is no more can be considered as free will. I do agree we have freedom to choose from the given options available to us. But it doesn't eliminate God's sovergnity on our decision making process.

    Please think over
    Adam

    #176283
    Profile photo of MelinaAlahuhta gollamudi 
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    Quote (chosenone @ Feb. 07 2010,17:30)

    Quote (gollamudi @ Feb. 07 2010,14:30)
    Please share your views
    Adam


    Hi Adam.
      A very good post.  I agree, and the post you presented has some very good points.  Yes, “free will” is nowhere in scripture, yes it does say “choose”, but it is God who dircets our paths.
      Eph.1:11 states this clearly  … in Him in Whom our lot was cast also, being designated beforehand according to the purpose of the One Who is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will,
      How can one argue with this?  “the One (God) Who is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will,”
      May I add one ,ore scripture   … For His achievement are we, being created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God makes ready beforehand, that we should be walking in them.
    (Eph.2:10)
      Trust scripture, “All is of God”.

    Blessings,  Jerry.


    Hi brother Jerry,
    I thank you for such appreciation. I know you and brother Gene can alone agree with these views but not others in this forum.

    Peace and love
    Adam

    #176293
    Profile photo of kerwin kerwin 
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    Quote (gollamudi @ Feb. 07 2010,19:48)

    Quote (chosenone @ Feb. 07 2010,17:30)

    Quote (gollamudi @ Feb. 07 2010,14:30)
    Please share your views
    Adam


    Hi Adam.
      A very good post.  I agree, and the post you presented has some very good points.  Yes, “free will” is nowhere in scripture, yes it does say “choose”, but it is God who dircets our paths.
      Eph.1:11 states this clearly  … in Him in Whom our lot was cast also, being designated beforehand according to the purpose of the One Who is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will,
      How can one argue with this?  “the One (God) Who is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will,”
      May I add one ,ore scripture   … For His achievement are we, being created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God makes ready beforehand, that we should be walking in them.
    (Eph.2:10)
      Trust scripture, “All is of God”.

    Blessings,  Jerry.


    Hi brother Jerry,
    I thank you for such appreciation. I know you and brother Gene can alone agree with these views but not others in this forum.

    Peace and love
    Adam


    I happen to believe in free choice. I just do not see that it contradicts determinism.

    I am not quite sure what Gene believes as his words confuse me.

    #176296
    Profile photo of terraricca terraricca 
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    goll
    if you would read my quote you would learn, that they say the same thing that i do ,in a different angle,
    sorry for my inability to writing it down so you would be able to understand it.

    Quote (chosenone @ Feb. 07 2010,17:30)
    Quote (gollamudi @ Feb. 07 2010,14:30)
    Please share your views
    Adam

    Hi Adam.
    A very good post. I agree, and the post you presented has some very good points. Yes, “free will” is nowhere in scripture, yes it does say “choose”, but it is God who dircets our paths.
    Eph.1:11 states this clearly … in Him in Whom our lot was cast also, being designated beforehand according to the purpose of the One Who is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will,
    How can one argue with this? “the One (God) Who is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will,”
    May I add one ,ore scripture … For His achievement are we, being created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God makes ready beforehand, that we should be walking in them.
    (Eph.2:10)
    Trust scripture, “All is of God”.

    Blessings, Jerry.

    Hi brother Jerry,
    I thank you for such appreciation. I know you and brother Gene can alone agree with these views but not others in this forum.

    Peace and love
    Adam

    #176321
    Profile photo of GeneBalthrop GeneBalthrop 
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    Quote (gollamudi @ Feb. 07 2010,14:30)
    Myth of Free Will :

    Most people say that they believe in “free will.” Do you have any idea what that means? I believe that you will find a great deal of superstition on this subject. The will is saluted as the grand power of the human soul which is completely free to direct our lives. But from what is it free? And what is its power?

    THE MYTH OF CIRCUMSTANTIAL FREEDOM

    No one denies that man has a will—that is, a faculty of choosing what he wishes to say, do, and think. But have you ever reflected on the pitiful weakness of your will? Though you have the ability to make a decision, you do not have the power to carry out your purpose. Will may devise a course of action, but will has no power to execute its intention.

    Joseph's brothers hated him. They sold him to be a slave. But God used their actions to make him a ruler over themselves. They chose their course of action to harm Joseph. But God in his power directed events for Joseph's good. He said, “You meant evil against me; but God meant it for good” (Gen. 50:20).

    And how many of your decisions are miserably thwarted? You may choose to be a millionaire, but God's providence is likely to prevent it. You may decide to be a scholar, but bad health, an unstable home, or lack of finances may frustrate your will. You choose to go on a vacation, but an automobile accident may send you to the hospital instead.

    By saying that your will is free, we certainly do not mean that it determines the course of your life. You did not choose the sickness, sorrow, war, and poverty that have spoiled your happiness. You did not choose to have enemies. If man's will is so potent, why not choose to live on and on? But you must die. The major factors which shape your life cannot thank your will. You did not select your social status, color, intelligence, etc.

    Any sober reflection on your experience will produce the conclusion, “A man's mind plans his way, but the Lord directs his steps” (Prov. 16:9). Rather than extolling the human will, we ought to humbly praise the Lord whose purposes shape our lives. As Jeremiah confessed, “I know, 0 Lord, that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man to direct his steps” (Jer. 10:23).

    Yes, you may choose what you want, and you may plan what you will do. But your will is not free to accomplish anything contrary to the purposes of God. Neither have you any power to reach your goals but that which God allows you. The next time you are so enamored with your own will, remember Jesus' parable about the rich man. The wealthy man said, “I will do this; I will pull down my barns, and build larger ones; and there I will store all my grain and my goods… But God said to him, Fool! This night your soul is required of you” (Luke 12:18-21). He was free to plan but not free to accomplish; so it is with you.

    THE MYTH OF ETHICAL FREEDOM

    But freedom of the will is cited as an important factor in making moral decisions. Man's will is said to be free to choose between good and evil. But again we must ask, from what is it free? And what is man's will free to choose?

    The will of man is his power to choose between alternatives. Your will does decide your actions from a number of options. You have the faculty to direct your own thoughts, words, and deeds. Your decisions are not formed by an outside force but from within yourself. No man is compelled to act contrary to his will, nor forced to say what he does not wish. Your will guides your actions.

    Yet this does not mean that the power to decide is free from all influence. You make choices based on your understanding, your feelings, your likes and dislikes, and your appetites. In other words, your will is not free from yourself! Your choices are determined by your own basic character. The will is not independent of your nature but the slave of it. Your choices do not shape your character, but your character guides your choices. The will is quite partial to what you know, feel, love, and desire. You always choose on the basis of your disposition, according to the condition of your heart.

    It is just for this reason that your will is not free to do good. Your will is the servant of your heart, and your heart is evil. “The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually” (Gen. 6:5). “No one does good, not even one” (Rom. 3:12). No power forces man to sin contrary to his will, but the descendants of Adam are so evil that they always choose the evil.

    Your decisions are molded by your understanding, and the Bible says of all men, “Their senseless minds are darkened” (Rom. 1:21). Man can only be righteous when he desires to have fellowship with God, but, “No one seeks for God” (Rom. 3:11). Your appetites crave sin, and thus you cannot choose Good. To choose good is contrary human nature. If you chose to obey God, it would be the result of external compulsion. But you are free to choose, and hence your choice is enslaved to your own evil nature.

    If fresh meat and tossed salad were placed before a hungry lion, he would choose the flesh. This is because his nature dictates the selection. It is just so with man. The will of man is free from outside force but not from the bias of human nature. That bias is against God. Man's powers of decision are free to choose whatever the human heart dictates; therefore there is no possibility of a man choosing to please God without a prior work of divine grace.

    What most people mean by free will is the idea that man is by nature neutral and therefore able to choose either good or evil. This simply is not true. The human will and the whole of human nature is bent to only evil continually. Jeremiah asked, “Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard his spots? Then also you can do good who are accustomed to do evil” (Jer. 13:23). It is impossible. It is contrary to nature. Thus do men desperately need the supernatural transformation of their natures, else their wills are enslaved to choosing evil.

    In spite of the great praise that is given to “free will,” we have seen that man's will is not free to choose a course contrary to God's purposes nor free to act contrary to his own moral nature. Your will does not determine the events of your life nor the circumstances of it. Ethical choices are not formed by a neutral mind but always dictated by your personality.

    THE MYTH OF SPIRITUAL FREEDOM

    Nevertheless many assert that the human will makes the ultimate choice of spiritual life or spiritual death. Here the will is altogether free to choose eternal life offered in Jesus Christ or to reject it. It is said that God will give a new heart to all who choose by the power of their own free will to receive Jesus Christ.

    There can be no question that receiving Jesus Christ is an act of the human will. It is often called “faith.” But how do men come to willingly receive the Lord? It is usually answered, “Out of the power of their own free will.” But how can that be? Jesus is a prophet. To receive him means to believe all that he says. In John 8:41-45 Jesus made it clear that you were born of Satan. This evil father hates the truth and imparted the same bias into your heart by nature. Hence said Jesus, “Because I tell you the truth, you do not believe me.” How does the human will jump out of man to choose to believe what the human mind hates and denies?

    To receive Jesus further means to embrace him as a priest—that is, to employ,and depend on him to sue out peace with God by sacrific and intercession. Paul tells us that the mind with which we were born is hostile to God (Rom. 8:7). How can the will escape the influence of human nature which wa
    s born with a violent enmity to God? It would be insane for the will to choose peace when every bone and drop of blood cries out for rebellion.

    Then too, receiving Jesus means to welcome him as a king. It means choosing to obey his every command, to confess his right of rule, and to worship before his throne. But the human mind, emotions, and desires all cry out, “We will not have this man to reign over us” (Luke 19:14). If my whole being hates his truth, hates his rule, and hates peace with God, how can my will be responsible for receiving Jesus? How can such a sinner have faith?

    It is not man's will but God's grace that must be thanked for giving a sinner a new heart. Unless God changes the heart, creates a new spirit of peace, truthfulness, and submission, man will not choose to receive Jesus Christ and eternal life in Him. A new heart must be given before a man will believe, or else the human will is hopelessly enslaved to evil human nature—even in the matter of conversion. Jesus said, “Marvel not that I said to you, you must be born again” (John 3:7). Unless you are, you will never see his kingdom.

    Read John 1:12 & 13. It says that those who believe on Jesus have been “born, not of the will of man, but of God.” As your will is not responsible for your coming into this world, it is not responsible for the new birth. It is your Creator who must be thanked for your life, and if any man be in Christ, he is a new creation (II Cor. 5:17). Who ever chose to be created? When Lazarus rose from the dead, he chose to answer the call of Christ, but he did not choose to come to life. So Paul said in Ephesians 2:4 & 5, “When we were dead in sins God has quickened us with Christ (by grace you are saved).” Faith is the first act of a will made new by the Holy Spirit. Receiving Christ is an act of man just as breathing is, but God must first give life.

    No wonder Martin Luther wrote a book entitled The Bondage of The Will which he considered one of his most important treatises. The will is in the chains of an evil human nature. You who extol the free will as a great force are clinging to a root of pride. Man, as fallen in sin, is utterly helpless and hopeless. The will of man offers no hope. It was the will choosing the forbidden fruit that brought us into misery. The powerful grace of God alone offers deliverance. Cast yourself upon God's mercy for salvation. Ask for the Spirit of Grace that he may create a new spirit within you.
    Source: http://www.eternallifeministries.org/wc_myth.htm

    Please share your views
    Adam


    Adam……….Good post brother. What is funny about FREE WILLS, is there is (NO) Scripture that supports it. People tend to Think because GOD gives us LIBERTY to exercise our (INFLUENCED WILLS) that some how means our Wills are FREE. Nothing could be further from the truth. GOD HIMSELF DOES NOT USE A “FREE” WILL, but a (COUNSELED) WILL. “FOR GO DOES ALL THINGS AFTER THE (COUNCIL) OF HIS WILL”. Problem man tries to do all things he does after the counsel of His will to. But scripture say “THY KINGDOM COME AND (THY) WILL BE DONE, NOT OUR WILLS BE DONE. The Apostle Paul said “THERE WAS NO GOOD THING IN MY FLESH, (why), BECAUSE TO WILL IS PRESENT.

    Yet many think that is a good thing to be SELF WILLED and earn your salvation by your (OWN) So-called “FREE WILLS” but that is far from what scripture says, “FOR WE ARE SAVED BY (GRACE) AND THAT NOT OF YOURSELVES, IT (SALVATION ) IS A GIFT FROM GOD, NOT OF WORKS LEAST ANY SHOULD BOAST. PRIDE IS THE OFFSPRING OF SO-CALLED “FREE WILL” DRIVEN PEOPLE.

    The humble put their Wills to death as our Lord Jesus Christ did and accept the Will of GOD. IMO

    peace and love to you Adam and yours………………..gene

    #176322
    Profile photo of NickHassan NickHassan 
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    Hi,
    When folk deny free will they are denying COMPLETELY FREE WILL.
    Even Jesus had his own will which he struggled with in the gaarden.

    The carnal men of earth are under compulsion to unwittingly obey the god of this world but Jesus offers freedom.

    Those that are set free can be guided by the gentle wind of the Spirit which encourages but does not compel.

    #176329
    Profile photo of Ed J Ed J 
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    Quote (gollamudi @ Feb. 08 2010,00:45)

    Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 07 2010,15:12)

    Quote (gollamudi @ Feb. 07 2010,14:30)
    Myth of Free Will :

    Please share your views
    Adam


    Hi Adam,

    The myth of no free will; You present a false truth.
    Just because there is influence on everybody does NOT negate “FREE WILL”!

    Ed J
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org


    Hi brother Ed J,
    I know many of our brothers will not agree with these views. Yes, you are right our wills are certainly influenced either by our own inner cause and effects or by God. I don't believe in any (personal)devil who causes us to commit evil. Once our will is influenced by somebody or some thing it is no more can be considered as free will. I do agree we have freedom to choose from the given options available to us. But it doesn't eliminate God's sovergnity on our decision making process.

    Please think over
    Adam


    Hi Adam,

    I can't agree with your logic, freedom to choose IS “Free Will”.
    Your logic is flawed. If a poor person living in Africa learns about life in America
    and they want to come here(a free will choice), but because of there circumstances
    they cannot, that does not mean the lost their “Free Will”.
    This is the type of logic you present?
    Can you not see that it is faulty logic?

    God bless
    Ed J
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #176350
    Profile photo of GeneBalthrop GeneBalthrop 
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    EDJ…..You are talking about an (influenced WILL) there does not exist any WILL “FREE” of Influences, NOT GOD'S nor Mans. Think about it, a WILL is ONLY a WILL if it (IS) (INFLUENCED), a will is the expression of what we want, or there simply would not be (ANY) WILL in EXISTENCE. While GOD gives us Liberty to a Point to exercise our (influenced) WILLS on earth, HIS is the (ONLY) WILL that will ultimately Be DONE. Jesus was not doing His Will but the FATHERS Will, that is why he could say whoever seen him was seeing the FATHER because His was only doing the FATHERS WILL, not HIS. OUR Wills separate Us from GOD and must be put to death, This is done by the (GRACE)(Gods influencing on the heart) by GOD, when this happens you are loosing (YOUR) Life by Doing GOD'S WILL , not yours. Scripture does not deal with any so-called “FREE WILLS” because no WILL exists as “FREE”.

    peace and love………………..gene

    #176373
    Profile photo of MelinaAlahuhta gollamudi 
    Member
    • Topics started 8
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    Hi brother Gene,
    I always wonder how you are not fed up answering people's repeated queries and their negations on your strong reasons on 'Myth of Free Will'. I hope our brothers Ed J and Terraricca will realise these honest attempts of yours.

    peace and love to you
    Adam

    #176396
    Profile photo of terraricca terraricca 
    Participant
    • Topics started 67
    • Total replies 28,227

    gene
    is this not admiting freewill in the bounderies of our creation??????????????????????????????
    While GOD gives us Liberty to a Point to exercise our (influenced) WILLS on earth, HIS is the (ONLY) WILL that will ultimately Be DONE. Jesus was not doing His Will but the FATHERS Will, that is

    #176397
    Profile photo of terraricca terraricca 
    Participant
    • Topics started 67
    • Total replies 28,227

    gene

    Christ was doing God will ,out of his freewill.
    Satan was doing his selves will ,out of his freewill.

    both are and were in heaven,before the father.

    two influences ?????? i only see one ,influence that is God ,were was the influence of Satan ??

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