Denying the son of God

Peter denying Jesus

Scripture says that the Word existed with God in the beginning. In Genesis 1, the beginning means the point of creation. In other words the Word that was with God existed at least as far back as the point of creation and we are also told elsewhere that this Word became flesh and that God made all things through his Word. Further, it says that God made all things for and through the son and that after the son came in the flesh and died for humanity, he went back to the glory that he had with God before the cosmos. And indeed we read that he is seated at the right-hand of the majesty on high in unspeakable glory.

The view the Bible seems to point to is the same view that many early church fathers also taught. This was that God as the Father with the son coming from him. In other words the relationship is the same as we have with our sons/daughters. They come from us, and we have incredible love for them coupled with authority over them.

Jesus often said things like: “if God were your Father, you would believe that I came from God“. If Jesus or the Word did not come from God, then you could speculate that the son has always been in the same way as the Father. That would lend itself more to their being two Gods even if one of the Gods was greater than the other. In this case, scripture would be written differently. Instead of God being the gardener and Jesus the vine, both would be gardeners. Instead of the head of Christ being God, the head of Christ would be no one. Instead of God being the Father of Jesus, God would be more akin to Jesus brother albeit possibly an older brother.

Far be from it though, ‘Jesus is the son of God’. We are told in scripture (in a puzzling way) that those who deny the Father and the Son (such as what Islam does) that is the sign of the Antichrist. However, there are many other doctrines that deny the son more subtly than Islam. One is to say that Jesus is God and then by that definition, he cannot be his own son, thus indeed the doctrine itself denies the son.

I use to think it weird that the Antichrist spirit denies the son. I reasoned that surely there are much worse things than denying Jesus as the son. However, there are many religions, philosophies, and doctrines that deny the son and their fruit is not good when you look back in history. After all, Peter declared to Jesus that he was the son of the living God and the messiah after Jesus asked who do people say I am and then asked Peter who he was. Jesus commended his answer saying that this was revealed to him by the Father. Jesus then spoke the foundation of the Church into being. “Upon this rock, I will build my Church“. He then said, “and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it“. So it seems that Hell itself is the thing that is trying to deny this important revelation and truth.

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This topic contains 3,757 replies, has 86 voices, and was last updated by  NickHassan 4 days, 18 hours ago.

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  • #107189
     t8 
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    NOTE: This is a continuation of the topic Trinity (Part 1).

    #107195
     acertainchap 
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    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 12 2008,11:27)
    Hi WJ,
    So WJ the Father is not the true God??
    Interesting.


    So you don't notice the Father as the true everlasting, God?

    Ephesians 1:17

    17 I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit.

    The Father is God. He pours out his Spirit upon mankind.

    The pouring out of the Spirit

    Acts 2:17

    17 ” 'In the last days, God says,
         I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
      Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
         your young men will see visions,
         your old men will dream dreams.

    Blessings :)

    #107196
     acertainchap 
    Member
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    Quote (seek and you will find @ Jan. 12 2008,11:45)
    Mandy  I am not a newbie. And I do not and ever will believe again in the trinity. I have explained before how I see Jesus as God. He is the Son of God the firstborn of all creation. I see God as a Family name. In Corinth. 15 when Jesus will give the Kingdom back to the Father we are also Gods. We are the Family of God, and I am proud to be a member of that Family. It is sad that nobody recognized me.
    I thought maybe my bad English would give me away, but that did not either. Any guesses who I am?
    :cool: :cool: :cool:


    Please do not think nobody recognized you. You say that nobody recognized you. I recognized you if that counts for something.
    ???

    #107197
     seek and you will find 
    Member
    • Topics started 7
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    Quote (t8 @ Jan. 13 2008,10:04)

    Quote (seek and you will find @ Jan. 12 2008,11:45)
    Mandy  I am not a newbie. And I do not and ever will believe again in the trinity. I have explained before how I see Jesus as God. He is the Son of God the firstborn of all creation. I see God as a Family name. In Corinth. 15 when Jesus will give the Kingdom back to the Father we are also Gods. We are the Family of God, and I am proud to be a member of that Family. It is sad that nobody recognized me.
    I thought maybe my bad English would give me away, but that did not either. Any guesses who I am?
    :cool: :cool: :cool:


    I give up.

    Who?


    :laugh: :laugh: You give up.

    Peace and Love Mrs.IM4Truth

    #107198
     seek and you will find 
    Member
    • Topics started 7
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    Quote (acertainchap @ Jan. 13 2008,11:04)

    Quote (seek and you will find @ Jan. 12 2008,11:45)
    Mandy  I am not a newbie. And I do not and ever will believe again in the trinity. I have explained before how I see Jesus as God. He is the Son of God the firstborn of all creation. I see God as a Family name. In Corinth. 15 when Jesus will give the Kingdom back to the Father we are also Gods. We are the Family of God, and I am proud to be a member of that Family. It is sad that nobody recognized me.
    I thought maybe my bad English would give me away, but that did not either. Any guesses who I am?
    :cool: :cool: :cool:


    Please do not think nobody recognized you. You say that nobody recognized you. I recognized you if that counts for something.
    ???


    Chap You did, that surprised me, you almost sound angry. Are you angry with me, because I played around?

    Peace and Love MrsIM4Truth
    Grandma?

    #107199
     acertainchap 
    Member
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    Another verse…

    John 17:3

    3 Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

    #107200
     acertainchap 
    Member
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    John 5:18

    18 Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.

    *They are equal but two seperate personages.

    :)

    #107201
     martian 
    Member
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    Quote (acertainchap @ Jan. 14 2008,09:11)
    John 5:18

    18 Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.

    *They are equal but two seperate personages.

    :)


    The pharasees thought he made himself equal with God. Jesus never made such a claim. Jesus repeatedly said the Father was greater then He. The pharasees accusations are not something to base doctrine on.

    #107202
     acertainchap 
    Member
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    Here are verses…

    Ephesians 1:18-23

    18 I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, 19 and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, 20 which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, 21 far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. 22 And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, 23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.

    :)

    #107203
     acertainchap 
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    Yes martian I realized that you are right, the Father is greater than He; but Jesus sits at the Father's right hand in the heavenly realms. :)

    #107204
     martian 
    Member
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    Quote (acertainchap @ Jan. 14 2008,09:54)
    Yes martian I realized that you are right, the Father is greater than He; but Jesus sits at the Father's right hand in the heavenly realms. :)


    Exactly — Jesus has been temporarily givenb all power in heaven and
    Earth an sits in the highest position of power other then Gid.

    #107205
     t8 
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    Yeah like Joseph and the Pharaoh.

    Joseph had all authority in that kingdom, but not over the Pharaoh himself.

    #107206
     ronday888 
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    Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 12 2008,05:55)

    Son wrote:

    SOL
    You continue to speak your Polytheistic theology without addressing my questions!

    What attributes does the Father have that the Son dosnt?  

    In what way is Jesus different in nature than God?

    So will we dwell in one another?

    Will we fill all things?

    Will we uphold all things by the word of our power?

    Will all things be through us and for us?

    Will we sit in The throne with the Father and the Son being worshipped and praised with the Spirit proceeding from us (not through us) to all of creation?

    Rev 22:1
    And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
    2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, [was there] the tree of life, which bare twelve [manner of] fruits, [and] yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree [were] for the healing of the nations.
    3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and *his servants shall serve him*:

    I await your answer!

    :O


    There are so many viewpoints being expressed that it is difficult to keep up with who believes what.

    Regardless, in answer to the question: What attributes does the Father have that the son doesn't?

    (1) Jesus does not share the attribute of being the God and Father of Jesus with his God and Father.
    http://tinyurl.com/3cvbuc

    (2) Jesus does not share the attribute of being the only Most High with his God and Father. — John 10:29.
    http://tinyurl.com/yjnj7v

    (3) Jesus does not share the attribute of being uncreated, having no beginning, being unbegotten, with his God and Father. — Colossians 1:15.

    (4) Jesus does not share the attribute of being the Creator with his God and Father. — Mark 10:16; 13:19

    (5) Jesus does not share the attribute of being only true God who sent Jesus. — John 17:1,3.

    (6) Jesus does not share the attribute of being “God of gods” with his God and Father.
    http://tinyurl.com/2gbjxj

    (7) Jesus does not share the attribute of being “God Almighty” with his God and Father.
    http://tinyurl.com/2b8qf5

    There could be more; these seven stand out in my mind.

    Additionally, Jesus' God and Father is never spoken of as being the image of God.

    In service of Jesus and his God,
    Ronald

    #107207
     Not3in1 
    Member
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    Hi Ron,

    Welcome to HeavenNet.

    Thanks for your thoughtful post.

    Love,
    Mandy

    #107210
     WorshippingJesus 
    Participant
    • Topics started 50
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    Quote (ronday888 @ Jan. 14 2008,13:57)

    Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 12 2008,05:55)

    Son wrote:

    SOL
    You continue to speak your Polytheistic theology without addressing my questions!

    What attributes does the Father have that the Son dosnt?  

    In what way is Jesus different in nature than God?

    So will we dwell in one another?

    Will we fill all things?

    Will we uphold all things by the word of our power?

    Will all things be through us and for us?

    Will we sit in The throne with the Father and the Son being worshipped and praised with the Spirit proceeding from us (not through us) to all of creation?

    Rev 22:1
    And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
    2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, [was there] the tree of life, which bare twelve [manner of] fruits, [and] yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree [were] for the healing of the nations.
    3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and *his servants shall serve him*:

    I await your answer!

    :O


    There are so many viewpoints being expressed that it is difficult to keep up with who believes what.

    Regardless, in answer to the question: What attributes does the Father have that the son doesn't?

    (1) Jesus does not share the attribute of being the God and Father of Jesus with his God and Father.
    http://tinyurl.com/3cvbuc

    (2) Jesus does not share the attribute of being the only Most High with his God and Father. — John 10:29.
    http://tinyurl.com/yjnj7v

    (3) Jesus does not share the attribute of being uncreated, having no beginning, being unbegotten, with his God and Father. — Colossians 1:15.

    (4) Jesus does not share the attribute of being the Creator with his God and Father. — Mark 10:16; 13:19

    (5) Jesus does not share the attribute of being only true God who sent Jesus. — John 17:1,3.

    (6) Jesus does not share the attribute of being “God of gods” with his God and Father.
    http://tinyurl.com/2gbjxj

    (7) Jesus does not share the attribute of being “God Almighty” with his God and Father.
    http://tinyurl.com/2b8qf5

    There could be more; these seven stand out in my mind.

    Additionally, Jesus' God and Father is never spoken of as being the image of God.

    In service of Jesus and his God,
    Ronald


    Ron

    Try again.

    Those are not attributes of God.

    And none of them deal with the nature of the Father and Yeshua and the Holy Spirit!

    The things you quote are with the premise that Jesus is not deity, and in no way prove he is not.

    None of the things you mention deal with
    Jn 1:14, Jn 20:28, Phil 2:6-8, 1 Tim 3:16, Titus 2:13, Heb 1:8, 1 Jn 5:20

    And they sure dont answer these questions…

    So will we dwell in one another?

    Will we fill all things?

    Will we uphold all things by the word of our power?

    Will all things be through us and for us?

    Will we sit in The throne with the Father and the Son being worshipped and praised with the Spirit proceeding from us (not through us) to all of creation?

    Rev 22:1
    And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
    2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, [was there] the tree of life, which bare twelve [manner of] fruits, [and] yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree [were] for the healing of the nations.
    3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and *his servants shall serve him*:

    Only God has these attributes!

    Thats just to start. I am a little tired tonight but will address you post point by point later.

    Welcome and blessings! :)

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